Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

Oh very nice turn of events.
Turkey's naval increase is a no threat their Army is what could damage Greece or their submarines of which they have none.
The change of government is kind of a blessing in disguise for the Liberals as the 1929 financial crisis will surely kill the United Front political power for some time to come although that could lead to a new heavy split in society for obvious reasons.
In OTL the great depression took a bit to reach Greece, the economy was doing fine all the way to 1931 but come it did. How it plays out TTL... well we shall see :angel:

How is the Greek Airforce at this point?
Just created from the Army and Navy air services TTL. I should actually had put a mention to that in 1928. Strength wise it has about 150 combat aircraft, trainers not counting in 1928, with about 90 more on order. Nearly two thirds of the existing aircraft are French designed Breguet 19s.

The army has tanks or not yet?
Just like every other French ally in Eastern Europe the Greeks have a few French FT-17s that are of frankly questionable use but better than nothing. They are organized in a single tank regiment. (the organization is historical although the tank regiment never got more than a handful of tanks OTL)

And the general Greek GDP? I think that it is more than two times higher than OTL.
So we are 1 year away from the Great Depression. Let's see the conservatives response to this. Will they really respond well or will their coalition break to pieces? I think the 2nd is more likely. Also I wonder how much will they manage to use the extra budget now. Will they give work on the public sector to their voters to appease them? Will they cut funding to the refugees? It all depends on how will Stratos navigate the hard road ahead.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they react well to the crisis. After all the Populists did relatively well economically (unlike most everything else) in 1933-35. But doing the right things to deal with the crisis does not mean that said right things are also actions the electorate would be appreciating necessarily...
 
Well I think this Greece is more connected to world trade and an impact like the 1929 would have more serious repercussions. On the other hand it also has a bigger domestic market and industry so maybe it will be fine. I always thought that a trade deal with Yugoslavia and Romania could help Greece sell it's products but I 'm not that well educated on the era's economics. Could the Greeks produce tanks , in the beginning tractors for agriculture, by the 1940's? That could be a nice touch although Greek defensive terrain isn't really a place for tanks with all those mountains , they could be used as mobile artillery.
Nice to see the airforce getting started that good although those planes would be obsolete by now ,or soon enough. They will provide useful experience both for flying and building-maintaining planes which could lead to better things in the future.
 
Well I think this Greece is more connected to world trade and an impact like the 1929 would have more serious repercussions. On the other hand it also has a bigger domestic market and industry so maybe it will be fine. I always thought that a trade deal with Yugoslavia and Romania could help Greece sell it's products but I 'm not that well educated on the era's economics. Could the Greeks produce tanks , in the beginning tractors for agriculture, by the 1940's? That could be a nice touch although Greek defensive terrain isn't really a place for tanks with all those mountains , they could be used as mobile artillery.
Actually north Greece as seen is 1941 is hardly what you'd call bad tank ground. The Axios river corridor allows an enemy armoured force to drove straight at Thessaloniki. And in TTL one needs also to take into account East Thrace, again flat open plains and the valleys leading down to Smyrna.
Nice to see the airforce getting started that good although those planes would be obsolete by now ,or soon enough. They will provide useful experience both for flying and building-maintaining planes which could lead to better things in the future.
Venizelos was probably the first head of government to fly in an airplane back in IMS 1911 and the Greeks were among the early adopters of combat aviation after all...
 
For an example mentioned by Markezinis (himself a royalist) in the early 1960s he had received letters asking when the country would make a monument to the "victims of Venizelist repression in the 12th Patras Infantry regiment in 1918". As victims the writer of the letters meant the soldiers in the regiment that had been executed when they mutinied and deserted (at Constantine's instigation) in 1918. As Markezinis duly noted even after half a century the writer still did not understand that this was treason...
About 15 years ago, I toured Italy. Near the Vatican, I saw a fairly recent graffito on a wall. I might have a photo of it somewhere, but stuff is packed/at other locations, so I will just have to recall if from memory. Roughly:

Badoglio infame
8-Settembre-1943


IOW, someone was still exercised about Italy's WW II capitulation to the Allies in September 1943.
 
Actually north Greece as seen is 1941 is hardly what you'd call bad tank ground. The Axios river corridor allows an enemy armoured force to drove straight at Thessaloniki. And in TTL one needs also to take into account East Thrace, again flat open plains and the valleys leading down to Smyrna.

Venizelos was probably the first head of government to fly in an airplane back in IMS 1911 and the Greeks were among the early adopters of combat aviation after all...
Actully Venizelos flied in an airplane on February the 8th 1912. He made this statement after his flight (roughly translated)" The airplane is indicated as the weapon of the weak. The highly risky and bold nature of the Greek people will make this (the airplane) a brilliant weapon in war destined to offer great service. And in Greek Το αεροπλάνο ενδείκνυται ώς το όπλο των αδυνάτων. Η ριψοκίνδυνος μάλιστα και τολμηρά φύσις του Έλληνος θα καταστήση τούτο λαμπρόν έν πολέμω όπλον μέλλον να προσφέρει μεγάλες υπηρεσίες.
 
Part 34 The more things change...
Stockholm, December 10th, 1928

Kostis Palamas had been called by Romain Rolland the greatest poet of Europe and had been nominated for the Nobel prize for literature twice, in 1926 and 1927. Third time was apparently the charm as Palamas became the first Greek to win the Nobel prize for his poetry, in particular his "Twelve Lays of the Gypsy". The growing role and influence of Greece over the last two decades probably hadn't hurt Palamas chances... [1]

Athens, December 11th, 1928

The new government of the United opposition, received its vote of confidence in a joint session of senate and parliament. Stratos following the earlier example of Venizelos kept for himself the ministry of the army in addition to being prime minister, with Ion Dragoumis receiving the ministry of foreign affairs and Tsaldaris the ministry of public works. Rear admiral Periklis Rediadis would become minister of the navy and George Pesmazoglou minister of finance. In the army general Konstantinos Nider, would become the new chief of the general staff with Konstantine Gouvelis assistant minister of war but Stratos carefully avoided touching any of the primary Venizelist officers in the army otherwise. After all after 11 years it wasn't practical to reinstate any of the officers that had been removed by the Venizelists back in 1917.

It remained to be seen how Stratos government would fare but its material prospects at the moment looked relatively good. State finances were generally sound, taxes had returned slightly over 13 billion drachmas in 1928 out of total state revenues of 16 billion and the budget remained balanced. The debt service at 1.38 billion this year and 2.42 billion in 1929 was notable but hardly crippling, the only foreign loans singe the end of the war were the $10 million taken to rebuild Athens water system and 4 million pounds for infrastructure projects earlier in the year. GDP had grown from $780 million in 1921 to $963 million in 1928, if anything the growth was all the more pronounced when looking at it in constant prices, industrial output had doubled and the country was on its way to becoming self sustained in wheat production over the next few years. Infrastructure had seen steady improvement most notably a new railroad between Kalambaka and Veroia in Macedonia had been completed in 1927, the Greek road network had been expanded from about 11,000 km to 17,000 and significant effort had been put at drainage of swamps, hoping both to reclaim land and combat the malaria endemic to the country. Refugee resettlement was mostly complete, with exchangees being settled in Macedonia, Ionia and Thrace, 6 billion drachmas in bonds issued in 1926 had gone a long way towards completing the process but ironically might have helped cost the Liberals the election as many exchanged had been miffed at being responsible for paying the bonds instead of being given loans for free. The one thing that had definitely not gone well had been the drachmas exchange rate which had finally stabilized to 250 drachmas to the pound in 1927, fully 10 times the exchange rate back in 1914.

Athens, February 1929

Ford had first proposed establishing a car factory in Greece back in 1926. Despite its policy in favour of developing industry within Greece, negotiations with Ford had gone nowhere under the Venizelos government. Pesmazoglou, an economist of note, had repeatedly accused Venizelos for the delays and of supposed influence of British finance causing them. As soon as he became minister of finance he took it upon himself to complete the deal with no further delays. By this time next years the first cars would be coming out of Ford's factory in Piraeus. Pesmazoglou also hoped to see the virtual monopoly Bodosakis had in Greek heavy industry broken, since importing the first Siemens-Martin furnace from German reparations back in 1923, Bodosakis steel factory in Eleusis remained the only one of its kind in Greece producing 36,000t of steel in 1928. But no candidates appeared to exist so far.

Deutche Werke shipyard, Kiel, February 1929

Erzatz Preussen, the first German panzerschiff was laid down. If people thought the provisions of the treaty of Versailles would severely hinder German naval power, the new ship under construction, she would be named Deutschland, had just thrown a spoke in the wheels of these ideas and of the naval disarmament treaties in general. The presence of the Turkish naval attache in the laying down of the ship would go relatively unnoticed.

Britain, May 30th, 1929

In its four and a half years in power the Conservative party hadn't done badly, quite notably it had introduced the Widows, Orphans and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act in 1925 an unprecedented act on the part of Tories and introduced universal women suffrage in 1928. But the economy had grown only slowly, the British return to the gold standard under Churchill in 1925 at the pre-war exchange rate of $4.86 to the pound had probably been a mistake, and the voters acted accordingly. For the first time in history Ramsey MacDonald's Labour came first in an election with 36.1% of the vote and 258 seats. The Conservatives had come slightly behind with 34.4% and 224 seats. The Liberals despite increasing their vote share to 28.3% of the vote and nearly doubling their seats to 124 where still a distant third in parliament. [2] But with none of the other two parties gaining a majority, Lloyd George could now play king maker. Already recognizing the predicament the Liberals were in his price was simple. Electoral reform and introduction of Alternative Vote for British parliamentary elections. Labour was willing to pay the price. Stanly Baldwin hesitated and bad blood between him and Llooyd George over the end of the coalition government six years earlier certainly didn't help. Britain would get her first Labour government in history, even one at the sufferance of the Liberals. And the Liberals would get their price.

Mount Ararat, Turkey (free Kurdistan proclaimed), July 1929

Two Turkish divisions launched a renewed offensive against the Kurdish rebels. Despite initially gaining ground the Kurdish rebels under Ihsan Nuri, managed to stave the attack off. By September the Kurdish rebellion would close two years and no end appeared to be in sight. Lack of air support, aircraft couldn't be used in open violation of the treaty of Chantilly, to attack Kurdish positions were certainly a problem from the Turkish point of view, as was the ability of rebels to draw supplies through Iran and from French Syria. Grumblings within the grand national assembly increased. By August, with some behind the scenes prompting from Kemal grand vizier Salih Hulusi pasha was gone, replaced by Bekir Sami bey. He was the first openly nationalist grand vizier since the end of the war.

Phaleron, Piraeus, September 1929

The first of 50 Hawker Horsley's and Fairey IIIFs came out of the aircraft factory to join the recently formed air force that had replaced the separate army and navy air services back in 1927. Stratos was actually of two minds over the new arm and had thoughts of returning to the navy its own air service but nothing had come out of them so far.

New York, October 1929

Rumblings in the international stock markets were being felt since the start of September. But by the end of October Wall Street had crashed, quite worse than in the panic of 1907 over two decades earlier. Over the next few years repercussions would be felt around the world.

Sebastopol, November 1929

Battleship Parizhskaya Kommuna formerly Sebastopol joined the Soviet Black Sea fleet along the light cruiser Profintern, the former Svetlana. For the first time since the October revolution the Soviets had naval superiority in the Black sea as Parizhskaya Kommuna comfortably outgunned the much older Greek battleships Lemnos and Kilkis combined. This was of some concern the the Balkan Entente and the Greek naval staff, Rediadis the navy minister had been on record that while aircraft were likely to make battleships obsolate further in the future, the Greek navy needed at least one battleship and ideally as many as three. [3] Most navy officers, with the exception of a vocal minority under vice admiral Kolialexis, agreed with him. But for the time being Stratos refused to alter the existing naval program as adding even a single battleship to the fleet would require expenditure of 5 to 8 million pounds. Meanwhile Soviet yards were busy rebuilding the battleship Frunze to a new modernized design as part of the first five year plan... [4]

[1] In OTL Palamas was nominated virtually every year between 1926 and the start of WW2 and arguably did deserve the prize. Sorry Sigrid Undset!
[2] The Liberals start from a relatively stronger position TTL
[3] From OTL parliamentary minutes
[4] A side effect of the Soviets feeling more threatened TTL from the British/French presence in Constantinople
 
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Note:

A few rather minor updates have been done to some of the early parts to conform with further research and also thanks to the kind advice of professor Travlos, for which I'd like to thank him here as well. Changes as follows:

1. Gounaris refuses to join parliament for a further two years, being too stubbornly anti-Venizelist to accept the electoral defeat instead claiming fraud. His final fate remains unchanged, given the mess that was the Athenian water at the time him getting sick from it is all too plausible. I've actually toyed with the idea of having him leading the 1924 coup and getting executed for his troubles but decided to be kind, short of, to him TTL.

2. A minor alteration to the return of Royalist officers to the army. I had no more than a few hundred returning. Even that was too optimistic so further reduced this to just a handful as the backlash was still too strong on both sides of the schism. Venizelos was apparently offering to reinstate any willing and capable to do so in the civil service mostly as engineers instead. Same here, after all Evelpidon school for many years was following the model of the Ecole Polytechnique.

3. Covered the fate of Damat Ferid pasha, which was not being mentioned. He's assassinated in 1921, by a couple of junior officers in Constantinople, lest he become grand vizier again. Likely the subject of what-ifs TTL...
 
Part 35 Second battleship summer
Yugoslavia, January 6th, 1930

The kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was in increasing political turmoil if not outright dysfunctional for the past two years with the royal government locked in endless parliamentary fights with the Peasant Democratic Coalition of Stjepan Radic's Croatian Peasant Party and Svetozar Pribicevic's Independent Democratic Party. Thing's had been bad enough that an exasperated king Alexander had claimed to Pribicevic that it was impossible to work with the Croats and that if they wanted, the Croats and the Slovenes could immediately have their own separate states, a proposal the Peasant Democratic Coalition was quick to reject. Things had only gone worse when Pribicevic and two more representatives had been killed inside parliament by a fellow representative in June 1928. [1] It was obvious to all that something needed to be done. It was far less obvious that the action king Alexander's had decided to take on Christmas eve [2] was the one required or advisable at all as he dissolved parliament, suspended the constitution and proclaimed a royal dictactorship. Several politicians, Radic among them, would be quickly arrested, although after a few weeks Radic, suffering from diabetes and nearly blind from it would be moved from prison to a hospital.

Aberdeen proving grounds, April 1930

Testing for a new self loading rifle to be adopted by the United States army went on, the two man competitors being Garand's T3 design and Pedersen's T1 design. Both designers were constantly present for the trials, Pedersen after licencing his rifle design to Vickers back in 1926 was now concentrating his efforts on securing its adoption by the army. Nevertheless the simpler Garand rifle was steadily gaining ground in the trials. Even that thought would not be necessarily a total loss for Pedersen as both rifles were using his .276 cartridge. Of course Pedersen also had to combat a significant faction within the army wanted to stick with the older 30-06. [3] In Britain trials of the rifle had begun as well but funding was anything but certain, costs to replace the existing rifles would amount to at least 3-4 million for the first quarter million rifles after all, while the Royal Navy was pressing for adding at leastone of the four fleet carriers it had hoped to build throughout the 1920s in the 1931 estimates which would had cost about the same. [4]

Westminster, July 1930

The Representation of the People Bill had been introduced to parliament back in January, as the Labour government applied her part of the agreement with the Liberals. Now it passed its second reading in the Commons with 382 votes to 224 [5]. Now after passing its third reading in the Lords it was returned again to the Commons for consideration. Despite Lloyd George's hope that the bill would be discussed, and passed, before the parliament adjourned for the summer this was not to be and the bill would have to wait for the fall. But hopefully it was just a delay...

Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino, Trieste Italy, July 1930

Rauf Orbay and the Turkish navy had taken careful not of the laying down of the Deutschland the previous year. In many ways the ship was ideal for Turkish needs. It was understood, at least within the navy, that when war with Greece would come again the navy should be able to cut off Greek communications between mainland Greece and Anatolia or at the very least threaten them, But Turkey was denied submarines by the peace treaties as well as the right of building ships larger than 10,000t. At 10,000t Turkey could build either coastal battleships, as it had already done with Barbaros, which were liable to be relatively slow or heavy cruisers. But the Greeks were already planning the construction of a pair of heavy cruisers, Turkish cruisers would not be offering any qualitative advantage. Deutschland, fast and with battleship sized guns was offering an obvious advantage although its protection, while better than most cruisers still left it vulnerable to heavy cruiser guns. The ship cost though an eye watering 82 million reichsmarks, and some of its features were simply useless for Turkish conditions, what was the point for the diesel engines and massive range when your goal was to operate in the Aegean.

Thus the Turkish navy had turned to the Italians. Could Italy offer a similar ship, preferably as well protected as Barbaros, using the heavy guns left behind from Yavuz and at a reasonable price? Italy had several reasons to be accommodating. Mussolini wanted to support the Italian shipbuilding industry and had already passed into law the offer of subsidies for all construction including warships for export. Just as importantly he wanted to bring Turkey further towards the Italian orbit and strengthening the Turkish navy against the Greeks was to the direct benefit of Italy in view of the bad relations of Italy with Greece. Hence the Turkish request had received Mussolini's direct support with the Italians offering an adaptation of their own Zara class heavy cruisers, ostensibly 10,000t ships but in reality closer to 12,000t standard displacement. Machinery had been reduced by a third still allowing a very respectable 29 knots top speed, belt improved from 150 to 200mm and the 8in guns of the Italian ship exchanged for Yavuz's 6 remaining 283mm guns. And Italian prices even without taking into account subsidies or recycling older guns were far more reasonable than the Germans. And thus the battleship Fatih was laid down.

Athens, September 1930

The news of the laying down of Fatih had been received with considerable concern by the Greek naval establishment and the public. The ship was described with good reason as clearly superior to anything the Greeks possessed. In any future war it was absolutely necessary for the Greek navy to be able to dominate the Aegean. In parliament heated arguments were made against the Venizelos government that it should not had abandoned the construction of the battleship Salamis, or when the Italians had refused its export in the Inter-Allied control commission ordered a replacement. Venizelos had countered that the reinforcement of the Greek light fleet and air force under his government was sufficient to counter even Fatih succesfully, while he had left the navy fund with nearly 2 million pounds to procure additional ships, the country need not to panic. The argument about the light fleet and air force might well have been correct. But it was not an argument the public wanted to hear nor one the navy wanted to hear as majority naval opinion was that the only safe answer was one or more heavy ships of its own to counter the Turkish ship. It was a costly option, any counter was liable to cost two to three times as much as the Turkish ship but it was considered the only safe alternative. It had been learned that the French were preparing to build ships between 23,300-26,500t to counter the German pocket battleships, while the British were mulling over 20,000t and 27,500t battlecruisers. Thus the tender sent to Britain, France and the US called for a ship between 20-28,000t. The cruiser plans would be put on hold for the time being with both the army and the air force procurement budgets would be reduced to finance the ship. For many it looked as if the events of 1913-14 were repeating themselves...


[1] Seems to me Racic's actions in June 1928 were hardly spontaneous. But this time Radic is luckier and Pribicevic decidedly less so.
[2] Serb Orthodox church is still using the Julian calendar...
[3] In OTL Pedersen was off to Britain for a time in 1930 which likely affected at least to some degree his chances. Here Vickers has bought the design already from 1926...
[4] Back in 1924 Lloyd George unlike MacDonald did not reduce the cruiser program from 10 to 7 ships. So the RN has a bit more leeway at the moment. Or perhaps not.
[5] That is a year ahead if OTL to secure the Liberal's support for Labour's government.
 
Interesting, as always. Another costly Graeco-Turkish naval race, which could easily help cause a larger Interwar naval race. It's a shame really. Battleships are neat prestige items, but huge amounts of the treasuries of both countries are going towards giant harbor queens instead of say, infrastructure or education or any other area of the economy that could help people a lot more.
 
I love the update, I only found this TL in the last month or so and have been loving it, especially as the Balkans during the interwar period tends to get overlooked in favor of German shenanigans, which is unfortunate, if understandable.

My only quibble would be the M1 Garand being in .276, as the depression has just hit and money and cost cutting are of great concern, especially with the stockpiles of 30-06 ammunition still around. Remember, the US of this time period maintained a smaller army in favor of its navy, even with congress being famously unwilling to grant the navy funding for battleships.
 
Interesting, as always. Another costly Graeco-Turkish naval race, which could easily help cause a larger Interwar naval race. It's a shame really. Battleships are neat prestige items, but huge amounts of the treasuries of both countries are going towards giant harbor queens instead of say, infrastructure or education or any other area of the economy that could help people a lot more.
Technically both Turkish "battleships" are not such, one is a coastal defence unit like the Swedish Sveriges albeit faster, the other is best described as an armoured cruiser, like the German pocket battleships or the UP102 design the Italians offering at the time (although the Turks reduced somewhat the speed compared to UP102 to improve protection. From the Turkish point of view Fatih is probably a good investment although not necessarily because it is going to secure them naval superiority. Why I'm saying so? They are getting their ship from Italy at a cost of about 1.7-1.9 million pounds thanks to a favourable exchange rate and Italian subsidies to their naval industry, minus the not inconsiderate cost of the main guns as these are already available from the former Goeben. What are the Greek ship options at the same time, that would form the basis for any design for Greece?

1. The RN 20,000t battlecruiser design (6x12in guns, 30 knots speed)
2. The RN 27,500t battlecruiser design (8x13.5in guns, 30 kts)
3. Thurston's project 885 small battleship again from Britain (6x16in guns but 26kts speed)
4. The French design for a 23,300t ship (8x12in became Denkerque)
5. Dunkerque/Strassbourg again from France.
6. Whatever US yards offer (8-9 14in guns at ~28,000t to go by the 1933 BC designs)

Now the cheaper of these ships should cost about 4 million pounds with likely cost up to 6 million. So in effect Turkey forces the Greeks to spend 3-4 times more to counter them, money that cannot be spent either on civilian requirements or the armed forces.

I love the update, I only found this TL in the last month or so and have been loving it, especially as the Balkans during the interwar period tends to get overlooked in favor of German shenanigans, which is unfortunate, if understandable.

My only quibble would be the M1 Garand being in .276, as the depression has just hit and money and cost cutting are of great concern, especially with the stockpiles of 30-06 ammunition still around. Remember, the US of this time period maintained a smaller army in favor of its navy, even with congress being famously unwilling to grant the navy funding for battleships.
Actually that's pretty much following OTL, Garand was still in .276 at the time. The one difference is the Pedersen is not off gallivanting in Britain, as by lucky coincidence the Greeks adopted 7x51 some years before (just as in OTL they decided to standardize on 7mm in 1924 and the two available options were Pedersen's 7x51 and 7x57 Mauser, 7x51 fitted better to what they had in hand.) and thanks to the Zaharof/Vickers connection Vickers picked up a licence for his rifle early. The interesting question is whether Pedersen's presence manages to get Douglas McArthur to chose .276 over 30-06. After all there is the little fact that the existing 30-06 could not be used with Garand which needed different ammunition and Pedersen is the right man to note and point out this...

The new naval race is no good news. It would have been much better if Greece purchased some more submarines and some more torpedo bombers such as this one, which was purchased by Greece in OTL. (Sorry, the page is in Greek) https://www.haf.gr/history/historical-aircraft/hawker-horsley-mkii/
What is the status of the Hellenic Navy now ITTL?
It would, as a matter of fact Greece is building some 50 Horsleys and Fairey IIIs compared to the 16 bought in OTL. BUT. When in OTL the same issue arose with the Turkish repair and modernization of Yavuz, Venizelos had to virtually shove down the throat of the admirals, parliament and his own navy minister the choice for countering with only the light fleet and aircraft as opposed to also completing Salamis to a modern design which was expected to cost about 3.8 million pounds. The expert opinion as given both by the Supreme Navy Council and in parliament (notably by former admirals Periklis Rediadis and George Stratos) amounted to "yes aircraft are the way of the future and are liable to make battleships obsolete but they have not yet matured so far yet so it is safer at the moment to back them up by at least one heavy unit." Venizelos actually threatened the admirals in the Supreme Navy Council with wholesale replacing them and reinstating commodore Kolialexis (the main proponent of the light fleet, out of service after the Pangalos dictatorship) in their place, while in parliament he stated that if he wanted naval supremacy in the Aegean as opposed to merely a balance he too would had gone for a heavy ship. Some of them, like Kavvadias had still not stomached the decision as late as the 1950s. (although politics certainly had their role in the arch-royalist Kavvadias accusing Venizelos naval policy).

TTL Venizelos is out of power at the moment, even his strategy considers Greek naval supremacy in the Aegean indispensable, the grand majority of the SNC still wants their battleship, Rediadis is navy minster and the Greek economy can much better afford the cost... which was considered affordable even in OTL. On top of that Stratos broke up with Venizelos back in 1913 exactly on such an argument, when Stratos on his own initiative switched the Salamis design to a full battleship. So sure it is likely the wrong decision, at least with hindsight. But without Venizelos in power it's the one likely to be taken...

Hellenic Navy in very short

2 pre-dreadnoughts (of very limited use)
1 armoured cruiser (fully modernized)
2 light cruisers (WW1 vintage)
16 destoyers ( 2 modern, 10 WW1, 4 completely obsolete)
8 submarines (6 modern, 2 WW1)
12 torpedo boats (all WW1 vintage, but useful as patrol craft)
 
16 destoyers ( 2 modern, 10 WW1, 4 completely obsolete)
What are the two modern units? I assume the WW1 ships are the 4 Aetos-class and 6 purchased British units, and the four obsolete ships are Niki/Thyella classes, did I miss Greece building two more?

I'm looking forward to seeing what the Greeks choose for a BB, even if, as several others have said, it's not the best decision for them, but a logical one without hindsight.
 
What are the two modern units? I assume the WW1 ships are the 4 Aetos-class and 6 purchased British units, and the four obsolete ships are Niki/Thyella classes, did I miss Greece building two more?
Mentioned in part 33 actually, HNS Hydra and Spetsai, completed 1928. Built locally to a British design similar to the Dutch Admiralen class and RN A class (after all they all derive from HMS Ambuscade), but without the seaplane of the Dutch ships, quadruple torpedo tubes and a couple more light AA instead. Two more (Psara and Kimon) are supposed to be completed in 1931, with a third pair (tentatively Formion and Nearchos) projected to complete in 1934 if all go well.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the Greeks choose for a BB, even if, as several others have said, it's not the best decision for them, but a logical one without hindsight.
I'm open to opinions on what should be chosen. The Greek plan before Rauf bey threw his little spoke on the wheels was calling for two heavy cruisers by about 1935 or so. Adding even a small battleship means you need to extend the plan to about a decade. So call it a rough 10-12 million up to 1940. One option would be to go with one of the larger designs and then proceed with the cruisers once you paid for that, added advantage that it would be likely superior to any existing Italian battleship. But the smaller 20,000t would cost around 4 million and was essentially the British version of a cruiser killer. If you can build say 2-3 of these why build heavy cruisers at all? Of course the British might actually prefer you build an actual battleship as opposed to a class of cruiser killers...
 
Of course the British might actually prefer you build an actual battleship as opposed to a class of cruiser killers...
If this ship starts a whole class of cruiser-killers, then it will be more than a negative development for the RN. What if the Italians start building a couple of those as the Trento and Zara classes are incapable of dealing with them?

A perhaps silly alternative idea: what about buying the HMS Tiger and thoroughly modernizing her? A bad choice with hindsight, but what a beautiful ship! By the way, Kountouriotis is a fine name for a battlecruiser.

Mentioned in part 33 actually, HNS Hydra and Spetsai, completed 1928. Built locally to a British design similar to the Dutch Admiralen class and RN A class (after all they all derive from HMS Ambuscade), but without the seaplane of the Dutch ships, quadruple torpedo tubes and a couple more light AA instead. Two more (Psara and Kimon) are supposed to be completed in 1931, with a third pair (tentatively Formion and Nearchos) projected to complete in 1934 if all go well.
Well, I guess more destroyers will be built by WW2. May I suggest the name "Hastings" for one of them?
 
How advanced are Turkey's anti submarine capabilities? And what is Greek doctrine in submarine warfare?
With Greece maintaining large superiority in the area of submarines, their surface fleet, including the future Fatih, remain vulnerable to this threat.

EDIT: And since Turks are not allowed air forces too, what about Greek doctrine and equipment for torpedo and dive bombing against ships ?
 
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Just like every other French ally in Eastern Europe the Greeks have a few French FT-17s that are of frankly questionable use but better than nothing. They are organized in a single tank regiment. (the organization is historical although the tank regiment never got more than a handful of tanks OTL)
Where is it stationned?
I'd guess Asia Minor since the biggest threat is around there, but at the same time, the defense of Thrace against Bulgarians makes much sense too.
 
If this ship starts a whole class of cruiser-killers, then it will be more than a negative development for the RN. What if the Italians start building a couple of those as the Trento and Zara classes are incapable of dealing with them?
The French before the Germans start building their pocket battleships were thinking about building a quartet of 17,500t ships armed with 12in guns for that express purpose. The only thing stopping the Italians or anyone else of the great powers (Soviet Union exempted) is that under the terms of the Washington Naval treaty any warship armed with guns greater than 8in no matter the tonnage counts as a capital ship and thus against the tonnage limits. For the immediate future Italy has the right to lay down 70,000t of capital ships. As long as they do not outright leave the treaty if they build a series of Fatihs that would be eating away their capital ship tonnage.

That said the Italians in this timeframe did design in OTL a 23,300t battlecruiser (6x15in guns), a 26,500t one (8x13.5in guns) as well as a smaller 18,000t ship (6x13.5in guns) before finally deciding to drastically rebuild the Cavours and laying down the first pair of Littorio class ships in 1934. Now accidentaly the first and third design have displacements that allow you to fit 3 and 4 ships in the 70,000t they could build while the second closely matches Dunkerque.

A perhaps silly alternative idea: what about buying the HMS Tiger and thoroughly modernizing her? A bad choice with hindsight, but what a beautiful ship! By the way, Kountouriotis is a fine name for a battlecruiser.
Sale of used battleships is not allowed under Washington. TTL Britain might have to think whether perhaps it needs to keep her in service of course if things are starting to get of the rails in the Mediterranean... Kountouriotis is already taken up as a cruiser along with Katsonis...

Well, I guess more destroyers will be built by WW2. May I suggest the name "Hastings" for one of them?
Skaramanga shipyards at the moment have 2 slipways. So in effect they are turning out a pair of destroyers every three years at the moment... baring expansions and the growing experience of the workforce.

How advanced are Turkey's anti submarine capabilities? And what is Greek doctrine in submarine warfare?
Four modern Swedish desiged destroyers at the time, the minimum to have their coastal defence ship escorted. They need another quartet for Fatih. The Greeks are pretty enamoured with submarines, doctrine wise they follow British doctrines as the British have trained their navy,
With Greece maintaining large superiority in the area of submarines, their surface fleet, including the future Fatih, remain vulnerable to this threat.
True but with certain caveats. We are still in the early 1930s. Submarines are a very dangerous weapon but are still quite limited in speed and ability to remain and fight submerged. When the best a submarine can make is 8-9 knots submerged, against a 29 knots ship like Fatih, the faster ship needs to be lured into the submarine's path.

EDIT: And since Turks are not allowed air forces too, what about Greek doctrine and equipment for torpedo and dive bombing against ships ?
They are not allowed air forces. That is different than saying the do not an air force at all. They don't have ~130 "mail planes" just because the post office needs to make fast deliveries... The Greeks have actually torpedo bombers, Hawker Horsley to be exact backed up by Fairey IIIFs and Blackburn Velos.


Where is it stationned?
I'd guess Asia Minor since the biggest threat is around there, but at the same time, the defense of Thrace against Bulgarians makes much sense too.
Thessaloniki along with one of the two cavalry divisions...
 
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