Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

Well, me too, think that could happen, something there, until once that the narrator tells us, who was there... Now, once he will be some hundred km away from Hagia Sophia...
One advantage of the... very unpopular compromise reached over the status of Hagia Sophia back in TTL 1922 is that both sides have a vested interest on nothing happening to the building itself, as it is used by both Muslims and Christians in the days it is not just a museum. Of course nothing untoward happens to the building and nothing happens to the people attending the building are entirely different things as evidenced in the TTL 1922 Christmas riots...

Kemal himself was almost certainly an atheist IMO, although during the Greco-Turkish war he made certain to show himself as a good Muslim.
 
So it seems like the Rif and Syrian revolts are happening largely as OTL, correct? Are the French concessions to the Syrian minorities a divergence?
On the other hand, the Kurdish revolt in Turkey might be more successful since Turkey is weaker. Or maybe this will be Ataturk’s chance to rise to power by taking advantage of it...
 
So it seems like the Rif and Syrian revolts are happening largely as OTL, correct? Are the French concessions to the Syrian minorities a divergence?
On the other hand, the Kurdish revolt in Turkey might be more successful since Turkey is weaker. Or maybe this will be Ataturk’s chance to rise to power by taking advantage of it...
Abd El Krim surrendered 6 months later than OTL here but otherwise the final result of the Rif war has been the same. As long as the Spanish held the coastal cities and I could see no way they could be pushed out, Rif sooner or later would go down.

The Great Syrian revolt, yes the end result was as OTL. But with a number of important differences. First the French had to commit about 40% more troops overall and where the "Syrian" colonial forces in OTL where 10-12,000 men here it was about 20,000. Second the increase came from the minority groups, Kurds, Maronites and Alawite, the French had to rely more on all three and by extension make more concessions to them as well. Last and potentially more important long term the revolt was both quite bloodier and involved more ethnic strife, the Alawis and Kurds siding with the French led to reprisals by the rebels, these in turn brought yet more attacks on the rebels... in the end TTL the Sunni minority that lorded it over the Alawis is mostly gone which given their political influence within the Alawite state up to 1936 could well have consequences. And you also have a somewhat higher percentage of Christians in Lebanon, some Christians move from Damascus and Aleppo there, some Sunnis go the other way round but that's rather less pronounced.
 
Part 33 Of figurative and real earthquakes
Smyrna, March 31st, 1928

The ground start shacking. Then it start shacking some more, buildings moving with it. When Enceladus was done with the bride of Ionia, hundreds of buildings were in ruins, more had suffered various degrees of damage and dozens of people were dead. At 6.5 on the Richter scale the earthquake had been the largest the region had suffered in many decades. Venizelos would visit the city the next day to oversee the damage and the relief efforts in person. Within a month a commission, under architect Constantine Kitsikis, would be established to create a new city plan for Smyrna, while part of the proceedings of a 4 million pound loan, originally intended for railroad and road construction would be redirected to the reconstruction effort.


Scaramanga Navy yard, Attica, April 27th, 1928.

HNS Hydra, the latest destroyer of the Hellenic Navy joined the fleet. Spetsai the second of the class could be seen fitting out in the background, while Psara and Kimon, laid down, the previous year after Hydra and Spetsai had been launched emptying the slipways were projected to complete in 1931. Hydra herself, at 1,360t standard displacement and with a main armament of 4 Vickers 4.7in guns, while modern was hardly exceptional, much like the A class destroyers being built for the Royal Navy and the Dutch Admiralen class she derived from the experimental HMS Ambuscade. Her significance lay elsewhere, she was the first warship actually built in Greece, since wooden warships had become obsolete back in the 19th century. As soon as Spetsai also became operational, the three much older destroyers Velos, Lonchi and Smyrna would be decommissioned and broken up leaving the fleet with two flotillas of 16 destroyers in total along with a dozen torpedo boats and six submarines. Overall the modernization of the navy was steadily continuing, although no great urgency was felt, even with recent additions to the Turkish navy, its Greek counterpart remained dominant in the Aegean.
Following the advice of the British naval mission under admiral Webb, a thorough modernization of Averof had been completed a few months earlier, replacing its old machinery with turbines and oil fired boilers, improving deck armour and torpedo defences and installing new fire control. At 400,000 pounds the modernization had been costly but it had kept Averof relevant at only a fraction of the cost for a new heavy cruiser, at 26 knots post modernization, Averof was notably slower but in exchange was far better armoured and slightly better armed. Planning was underway to ask for tenders for two new cruisers to replace the older pre-dreadnoughts, while the protected cruiser Helli, almost useless as a fighting unit, was being converted to a training ship, with a secondary minelaying capacity, as soon as the conversion was complete she would be renamed to Athena.

Sivas, June 1928

Rauf Orbay, minister of marine read the results of the recent German federal elections with interest if for somewhat non political reasons. The SDP had made its opposition to the construction of so called panzerschiffe, "armoured ships", one of the main planks of its campaign. While it had gained 22 more seats in the parliament, a coalition in support of construction of the ships had emerged from the elections, even though now the communists were asking for a referendum on the ships. But it was the concept of the ships in question which he found interesting. After several years without any new construction he had managed to place orders in Dutch shipyards for 4 modern destroyers, built to the design of the Swedish Ehrenskold class and a coastal defence ship with 4 of the late Yavuz guns similar to the Swedish Sveriges but faster at 25 knots top speed. But these while improving the situation of the fleet, it would have as many modern destroyers as the Greeks and the new "battleship" was arguably superior to the Greek pre-dreadnoughts did not affect the overall inferiority of his navy. The Greek light fleet was clearly superior, Averof after its modernization probably matched his new heavy unit and intelligence claimed the Greeks were also planning a pair of heavy cruisers. But this new German idea offered opportunitied and he still had half a dozen 283mm guns available at his disposal. He start drafting a letter with his idea to Kemal. Kemal... another problem. Istanbul had returned him to the assembly in a landslide back in April and since then he was increasingly getting directly involved in political affairs. True he was supposed to be on the same side and party with him, but Kemal's idea of this was that everyone had to take his orders. Just one more thing to ponder about...

Athens, September 1928

Back in 1924, the royalist parties had entered the elections split between each other and had been easily defeated by the growing Venizelist tide. In the four years that had passed the three main royalist parties had evolved on their own. Nikolaos Stratos Reform Conservative party was by now the main opposition force. Stratos, a former Liberal, had accepted the results of the referendum on the monarchy, his party as its title might suggest took a position of the centre-right of the political spectrum, broadly more conservative than the Liberals but often enough finding common ground with the more conservative elements of them. Ion Dragoumis National party much like its leader was a mix of some often disparate ideas at the same time being strongly nationalistic but also supporting the demotic language and even socialist ideas on occasion. Dragoumis was often accused of ideas similar to the Italian fascists, which while not entirely correct was not entirely wrong either although Dragoumis himself was virulently against Mussolini after his meddling in Greek affairs and the party was strictly political. It's main appeal was its leader, if Dragoumis chose to leave politics the party was likely to die with him. The populist party was only a shadow of itself after the deaths of Dimitrios Gounaris in 1922 and Petros Protopapadakis in 1927. Its current leader, Panagiotis Tsaldaris, tried to keep it relevant by populist propaganda in support of the throne, making acceptance of the 1924 referendum, the executions of Papoulas and Metaxas and virulent accusations against every single act of Venizelos its main policy planks. But Tsaldaris had neither the influence of Stratos nor the personal appeal of Dragoumis and this was showing. No matter the differences between the three parties though, they agreed on a single matter, that losing yet another election to Venizelos was entirely unacceptable. And thus their leaders came together to agree to a coalition between themselves. The United Opposition of the 1920 elections was back.

Greece, November 11st, 1928


Elections. Venizelos Liberals had every reason to hope to be reelected. They had done a reasonably good job on the economy, completed refugee settlement in Greece, nearly 75 million pounds had gone to the task including a 6 billion drachmas internal loan back in 1926, to be paid by the refugees, and had taken prompt action over the Smyrna earthquakes and had continued to do well in foreign policy, although truth to tell, nothing of much consequence had happened there after 1924. But this did not change that they were nearly continuously in power since 1910. Increasingly more people had start looking for change and with society slightly less polarized than in 1920 and 1924 it was easier for many to think about voting differently. In the and populist appeals over absolving refugees of the payments for the loans they had been given to resettle and earthquake victims in Smyrna over their loans, had swayed a small but significant part of the electorate. Enough for the United opposition to win 49.78% and 136 seats to the Liberals 46.95% and 114 seats. It was time for Nikolaos Stratos to test his abilities as prime minister...
 
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Sivas, June 1924
A small typo? Shouldn't it be 1928?
A good update! I suppose that besides the Smyrna earthquake the devastating Corinth Earthquake of 1928 happened as well. Given that many Greeks would still be highly supestitious in 1928, two major earthquakes could be seen by many as a "punishment" from God for the ruling Liberals. No doubt some in the United Opposition would use that in the elections.
Nikolaos Stratos will face a big test. I don't think that the cohesion of the government coalition will be strong, they were united mainly because of their opposition to the Liberals.
An interesting butterfly of Nikolaos Stratos not being executed (as in OTL 1922) is the effect on his daughter, the renowned Dora Stratou, creator of the first Greek national ensemble for Greek folklore dances. IOTL, she was traumatised by the execution of her father and was forced to live for 10 yars in exile.
https://www.grdance.org/en/dora-stratou/
Finally, Turkey might be interested in purchasing/constructing panzerschiffe but I don't think they will be able to do it without damaging the economy. The economy is much weaker than OTL . Perhaps they could purchase one.
 
A small typo? Shouldn't it be 1928?
A good update! I suppose that besides the Smyrna earthquake the devastating Corinth Earthquake of 1928 happened as well. Given that many Greeks would still be highly supestitious in 1928, two major earthquakes could be seen by many as a "punishment" from God for the ruling Liberals. No doubt some in the United Opposition would use that in the elections.
It's all the fault of Liberals and of switching to the Papist calendar. Vote Populist to save your souls, while there is still time! After all they did call Venizelos satan and beelzebub already...

Nikolaos Stratos will face a big test. I don't think that the cohesion of the government coalition will be strong, they were united mainly because of their opposition to the Liberals.
An interesting butterfly of Nikolaos Stratos not being executed (as in OTL 1922) is the effect on his daughter, the renowned Dora Stratou, creator of the first Greek national ensemble for Greek folklore dances. IOTL, she was traumatised by the execution of her father and was forced to live for 10 yars in exile.
https://www.grdance.org/en/dora-stratou/
I'm reasonably sympathetic to Stratos unlike certain others of the six. For certain he was a more capable man than Gounaris. And also a more moderate man.
https://www.grdance.org/en/dora-stratou/
Finally, Turkey might be interested in purchasing/constructing panzerschiffe but I don't think they will be able to do it without damaging the economy. The economy is much weaker than OTL . Perhaps they could purchase one.
One accidental advantage is that since technically Turkey cannot openly have an air force, quite a bit of money that in OTL went to the air force cannot be used that way. For example between 1924 and 1929 Turkey bought 297 aircraft in OTL. TTL they buy or assemble about 127 in the same time period. The other advantage is the material left behind when Goeben was dismantled, not least the 10 283mm guns and their mountings but also some two dozen 150mm and 88mm guns. Plus of course they are not allowed submarines of which they bought 4 in OTL. Whether they can actually afford larger ships and how many... we shall see. But I very much doubt they will be building them in Germany. Not when German ship construction costs appear to have been 2-3 times higher than anyone else.
 
I'm reasonably sympathetic to Stratos unlike certain others of the six. For certain he was a more capable man than Gounaris. And also a more moderate man.
https://www.grdance.org/en/dora-stratou/
I certainly think that Stratos was a capable man. The problem here is the shaky unity between the conservative parties. I think that the government will last until 1930 at most. I hope that the government will continue the industrialization policy and the development of the defence industry.
 
I certainly think that Stratos was a capable man. The problem here is the shaky unity between the conservative parties. I think that the government will last until 1930 at most. I hope that the government will continue the industrialization policy and the development of the defence industry.
I cant see why they wouldn't?
 
Appendix The Turkish navy in 1929
The new Turkish coastal battleship Barbaros.


When it enters service, the Turkish navy will be as follows

A. Capital ships

Barbaros (7,700t, 4x283mm, 25kts, built 1929)
Turgud Reis (10,670t, 6x283mm, 16.5kts, built 1894)

B. Cruisers

Mecidiye (3,970t, 4x130mm, 22kts, built 1904)
Hamidiye (3,900t, 2x150mm, 22kts, built 1903)

C. Destroyers and torpedo boats

4 Zafer class (974t, 3x120mm, 36kts, built 1929)
2 Peyk-i Zafer class (774t, 2x105mm, 21kts, built 1907)
3 Samsun class (284t, 1x65mm, 28kts, built 1907)
1 Akhisar class (165t, 1x47mm, 24kts, built 1904)
 
Managed to fulfill the Megali Idea and get everything he wanted from Turkey (and Albania), gets booted out for the sake of change. Not exactly the reward I was expecting for Venizelos.
 
Managed to fulfill the Megali Idea and get everything he wanted from Turkey (and Albania), gets booted out for the sake of change. Not exactly the reward I was expecting for Venizelos.
There was since 1917 a very solid block of voters in old Greece that kept voting against Venizelos come hell or high water. As there was an equally solid block of voters among Asia Minor Greeks that equally overwhelmingly kept voting for the Liberals come hell or high water. For an example mentioned by Markezinis (himself a royalist) in the early 1960s he had received letters asking when the country would make a monument to the "victims of Venizelist repression in the 12th Patras Infantry regiment in 1918". As victims the writer of the letters meant the soldiers in the regiment that had been executed when they mutinied and deserted (at Constantine's instigation) in 1918. As Markezinis duly noted even after half a century the writer still did not understand that this was treason and not something to be proud of.

This isn't disappearing for such mere minor issues like Venizelos bringing the Greek borders within walking distance of Constantinople. But by the same token Venizelos has so far won 5 consecutive elections since 1910 the sole exception being these of December 1915 which being of questionable legality, the Liberals did not participate in and he is in power for nearly 18 years. The electorate will be getting inevitably tired...

Oh and thanks for the nomination by the way!
 
There was since 1917 a very solid block of voters in old Greece that kept voting against Venizelos come hell or high water. As there was an equally solid block of voters among Asia Minor Greeks that equally overwhelmingly kept voting for the Liberals come hell or high water. For an example mentioned by Markezinis (himself a royalist) in the early 1960s he had received letters asking when the country would make a monument to the "victims of Venizelist repression in the 12th Patras Infantry regiment in 1918". As victims the writer of the letters meant the soldiers in the regiment that had been executed when they mutinied and deserted (at Constantine's instigation) in 1918. As Markezinis duly noted even after half a century the writer still did not understand that this was treason and not something to be proud of.

This isn't disappearing for such mere minor issues like Venizelos bringing the Greek borders within walking distance of Constantinople. But by the same token Venizelos has so far won 5 consecutive elections since 1910 the sole exception being these of December 1915 which being of questionable legality, the Liberals did not participate in and he is in power for nearly 18 years. The electorate will be getting inevitably tired...

Oh and thanks for the nomination by the way!
Well if I remember correctly you (or someone else on this thread) mentioned that the king was willing to let the Anatolian Greeks die just because they were filthy Venizelist. And if I got it right Monarchist=Conservatives more or less (I may be wrong however since I am not that familiar with Greek politics). So yeah that would go a long way towards explaining the polarization of the Greek electorate between Venizelists (especially Anatolian Greeks who certainly must not have taken kindly the low opinion the monarchy had of them) and anti-Venizelists.

And you are welcome! I rarely find post 1800 or even post 1900 timelines interesting, so I definitely hope this story wins or at least gets more widely known.
 
Well if I remember correctly you (or someone else on this thread) mentioned that the king was willing to let the Anatolian Greeks die just because they were filthy Venizelist. And if I got it right Monarchist=Conservatives more or less (I may be wrong however since I am not that familiar with Greek politics). So yeah that would go a long way towards explaining the polarization of the Greek electorate between Venizelists (especially Anatolian Greeks who certainly must not have taken kindly the low opinion the monarchy had of them) and anti-Venizelists.

And you are welcome! I rarely find post 1800 or even post 1900 timelines interesting, so I definitely hope this story wins or at least gets more widely known.
There's the famous or rather infamous letter of prince Andrew to Metaxas saying it would be better to let Kemal massacre all the Greeks of Smyrna as they were Venizelist... then you have the Athens government or at least elements of it trying to stop refugees from reaching Greece as they'd "threaten the social order". Of course one could just as easily go back to November 1916 were in to pogrom launched after the battle of Athens several refugees were executed by royalist militia.
 
There's the famous or rather infamous letter of prince Andrew to Metaxas saying it would be better to let Kemal massacre all the Greeks of Smyrna as they were Venizelist... then you have the Athens government or at least elements of it trying to stop refugees from reaching Greece as they'd "threaten the social order". Of course one could just as easily go back to November 1916 were in to pogrom launched after the battle of Athens several refugees were executed by royalist militia.
Damn... that's rough.
 
I cant see why they wouldn't?
Due to the high polarization in Greek politics, whenever there was a political change in government in Greece, the new government used to undo most of the policies enacted by the previous government, even if these policies were sane and reasonable. In some cases this has happened even in this century.
That is why I am worried if the new government will continue the industrialization policy with the same pace as the previous one. After all, many of their voters are conservative farmers who don't like industry very much...
 
Oh very nice turn of events.
Turkey's naval increase is a no threat their Army is what could damage Greece or their submarines of which they have none.
The change of government is kind of a blessing in disguise for the Liberals as the 1929 financial crisis will surely kill the United Front political power for some time to come although that could lead to a new heavy split in society for obvious reasons.
How is the Greek Airforce at this point? The army has tanks or not yet? And the general Greek GDP? I think that it is more than two times higher than OTL.
So we are 1 year away from the Great Depression. Let's see the conservatives response to this. Will they really respond well or will their coalition break to pieces? I think the 2nd is more likely. Also I wonder how much will they manage to use the extra budget now. Will they give work on the public sector to their voters to appease them? Will they cut funding to the refugees? It all depends on how will Stratos navigate the hard road ahead.
 
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