Shuffling the pack of Henry VII's children: A timeline from September 1486

Henry VII, Elizabeth of York. first Prince Arthur, Prince Henry, Princess Mary, Princess Margaret, Catherine of Aragon, Queen Joanna, James IV, Ferdinand II
Elizabeth of York gave birth to a baby girl on 14 September 1486. She and King Henry VII, her husband, named her Margaret after his mother. Three years later, on 29 November 1489, their much hoped for son was born. They named him Arthur. In May 1491 negotiations began for his marriage to Catherine of Aragon (born 15 December 1485) daughter of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile. Arthur and Catherine were betrothed by proxy in November 1500. However they would not get married until he was fifteen yesrs old. Meanwhile he was created Prince of Wales in 1492. His father appointed him the nominal head of the Council in the Marches of Wales, based at Ludlow. Elizabeth gave birth to a girl on 28 June 1491 and to a boy on 18 March 1496. She and Henry named them Mary and Henry respectively.

Their eldest daughter, Margaret, married James IV, King of Scots, in June 1500, as a condition of the Treaty of Perpetual Peace between England and Scotland. (1) Though as Margaret was only thirteen years old, the marriage would not yet be consumated. She gave birth to seven babies between April 1503 and May 1512, but only two survived infancy, in fact to adulthood. A son born on 3 October 1505, and a daughter born on 9 May 1512. She and James named them James and Margaret respectively.

Arthur, Prince of Wales, died at Ludlow Castle, on 2 April 1502. He was only twelve years old. His parents were grief stricken. They buried him in Worcester Cathedral, and commissioned Prince Arthur's Chantry, an elaborately decorated chapel in his memory. It was built in Worcester Cathedral in 1504. We do not know how Catherine of Aragon felt. She and Arthur had never met, though they had corresponded by letter. His younger brother, Prince Henry, was too young for her. Instead she married Charles III, Duke of Savoy.

Elizabeth of York, died on 11 February 1503 from postpartum infection following the birth of her daughter, Katherine on 2 February, who died a few days later. Elizabeth was only 37 years old. King Henry was grief stricken. Though he married Elizabeth for political reasons, he loved her deeply. He seriously considered remarrying. In 1505 he sent an ambassador to Naples to report on the suitability of Joanna, Dowager Queen of Naples (born 15 April 1478). He liked what the report said. So they were married in London on 16 October 1505.

Princess Mary, the younger daughter, of Elizabeth and Henry, married King Ferdinand II of Spain on 19 July 1505, his wife, Isabella, having died on 26 November 1504.

(1) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Perpetual_Peace.
 
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Shouldn't Margaret have been born on September 20? |
Thank you pointing out my mistake. Though actually Arthur was born on 19 September 1486 in OTL, so she would be born on that date in this timelline.

In this timeline I have changed the dates of birth for Margaret, Arthur, Mary and Henry. So Margaret and Mary were older than in OTL, Arthur and Henry were younger. It is based on the thread 'What if different birth order for Henry VII's children?' I would like to thank ER=100608]@BlueFlowwer[/USER], @pjmidd, @eliamartin65, and @Kellan Sullivan. who contributed to that thread, and gave me ideas for this timeline.
 
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I have taken Prince Arthur's date of birth from the book Elizabeth and Mary: Cousins, Rivais, Queens by Jane Dunn, London: HarperCollinsPublishers 2003,
 
Henry VII, Queen Joanna, second Prince Arthur, Prince Edmund, Henry VIII, Regency Council
Very interesting, can't wait to see where this goes!
Very interesting, can't wait to see where this goes!
I'm glad you like this timeline.

Queen Joanna gave birth to a baby boy on 22 July 1506, and to a second boy on 3 September 1507. She and King Henry named them Arthur and Edmund respectively, after his eldest son who died in April 1502 and his third son who Iived from February 1499 to June 1500.

Henry, Prince of Wales, deeply resented his father for marrying again after the death of his first wife. He accused him of betraying her memory.

King Henry was suffering from ill health. After 1506 he gave up almost all hunting. There was something wrong with his throat, at times he could neither eat or drink. He may also have had pulmonary tuberculosis. In early February 1508, he was for the first time too ill to travel from Richmond to Westminster for the Mass in commemoration of his late wife, Elizabeth of York. (1) His condition deteriorated and he died on 26 February 1508. This was about fourteen months earlier than in OTL. Historians think that the cause of death was probably pulmonary tuberculosis.

Henry, Prince of Wales, now became King Henry VIII of England. He was three weeks short of his twelfth birthday. During his last illness, his father had appointed a Regency Council to govern the country. It was headed by Lady Margaret Beaufort, the mother of Henry VII and grandmother of Henry VIII. The other members were: Wiliam Warham, Archbishop of Canterbury; Richard Foxe, Bishop of Winchester ; John de Vere, 12th Earl of Oxford; Thomas Howard, 1st Earl of Surrey, and George Talbot, 4th Earl of Shrewsbury, Dowager Queen Joanna stayed in England to care for her two young boys.

(1) His ill health was as in OTL. See the book Tudor England: A History by Lucy Wooding, New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2022.
 
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Henry VIII, Eleanor of Austria, Regency Council, Louis XII, Holy League
Henry VIII's reign was greeted with adulation and enthusiasm. Thomas More wrote a set of Latin poems for the king. The young king represented the potential of a new start for England, after the twenty two and a half years reign of Henry VII. However the Regency Council were still the real rulers of England. They continued the policies of Henry VII.

Henry was betrothed to Eleanor of Austria (born 15 November 1498) in May 1508. She was the eldest child of Philip I of Castile and Joanna of Castile. She was only nine years old, and would be married to Henry when she was fifteen.

In April 1510, the Regency Council made a peace treaty with France. Richard Foxe, Bishop of Winchester, was mostly responsible for it. This was as in OTL. Then there had been a proposal for a new and close Anglo- Spanish Treaty.
Privy Councillors explained to the Spanish Ambassador to England, Luis Caroz De Villarsgut, "that no other choice had been left to them than to conclude the treaty of peace with France, because the King being young and not having a son, it would have been dangerous to engage in war with France." (1)

In the autumn of 1511, Louis XII of France called a Church Council in Pisa in a move to replace Julius II as Pope. Other European condemned this as a threat to the spiritual authority of the Pope. In October 1511 a Holy League was formed comprising the Holy Roman Empire, the Papacy, Spain and Switzerland, against France. This was as in OTL.

Henry VIII was now fifteen years old and began to rule in his own right. He wanted to be like his hero Henry V, and lead his troops to great English victories over the French. But he was not confident enough to oppose the Regency Council, and England did not join the Holy League. In OTL, England joined in November 1511.

(1) Quotation taken from the book Fatal Rivalry: Flodden 1513: Henry VIII, James IV and the Battle for Renaissance Britain , by George Goodwin, London and New York: W,T. Norton & Company, 2013.
 
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Henry VIII, Regency Council
Thank you. I have added thread marks.

Lady Margaret Beaufort died on 29 June 1945. William Warham, Archbishop of Canterbury, now became head of the Regency Council.

Henry VIII celebrated his 16th birthday on Thursday 18 March 2012 with a magnificent celebration and a sumptious banquet at Richmond Palace. On the following Monday, 22 March, Henry and the Regency Council met at Westminster Palace.
 
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Henry VIII, Regency Council, Eleanor of Austria
"I am now sixteen years old and I will be king in deed, and not in name only. I want England to join the Holy League and fight for the Pope against King Louis. He is the Holy Father's enemy." I want to go to France and lead our country's army to a glorious victory against the French." Henry declared.

" We all commend your zeal for the Church and his Holiness the Pope, and admire your bravery and courage, Your Majesty. But we cannot possibly allow you to go to France." Warham told Henry.

"Why not? "

"Because you are not yet married to Princess Eleanor, and do not have a son and heir." Warham explained.

" How old is Eleanor?"

" She is thirteen years old"

"My grandmother, the Lady Margaret, married my grandfather when she was twelve years old, and gave birth to my father when she was thirteen years old."

"Because she was so young being pregnant and giving birth that she had no more children, though she was married three times. We will not allow Princess Eleanor to marry at her young age." Thomas Howard, Earl of Surrey, told the king.

"Have there princesses who were fourteen years old when they married kings?"

"There have been, Your Majesty." Bishop Richard Foxe said.

"When is Princess Eleanor fourteen years old?" Foxe told Henry.

"On 15th of November this year." Foxe said.

"In that case I will marry Princess Eleanor on the 16th of November this year. So , God willing, she will give me a son and heir in August next year. Foxe, write down that King Henry will marry Princess Eleanor on the 15th of November ." Foxe was the Council's Secretary.

"I will Your Majesty," Foxe said,

"Make all the arrangwments for my wedding."

"We will Your Majesty." Warham said.
.
"Because I am now sixteen years old, you are dismissed as my Regency Council. However you will be my council, the King 's Council. This meeting has now ended."

They all left the room.
 
Henry knows it's not up to him when Eleanor arrives, right? If her guardians want to wait until she's a bit older to send her away for marriage, then it's their right.
 
Thank you. I have added thread marks.

Lady Margaret Beaufort died on 29 June 1945. William Warham, Archbishop of Canterbury, now became head of the Regency Council.

Henry VIII celebrated his 16th birthday on Thursday 18 March 2012 with a magnificent celebration and a sumptious banquet at Richmond Palace. On the following Monday, 22 March, Henry and the Regency Council met at Westminster Palace.
What? Why are we jumping forward in time by half a millennium?
 
Are you thinking of King Henry VIII wing a battle of Flodden where 26,000 English Vs 46,000 Scots if you want to boost his reputation

And give him a taste of war and France has too many recourses and the policies of Edward IV and Henry VII enable France to become a superpower

On the European continent until the French Wars of religion started in the 1560s

France has a population of around 25 million compared to England 5.5 or 6.3 million

Scotland only has a population of around 400,000 people
 
Whether or not there is a Scottish invasion of England in 1513, and a battle of Flodden remains to be seen.
 
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Eleanor of Austria, Henry VIII
Archduchess Eleanor of Austria reached the age of fourteen on 15 November 1512. Henry VIII's ambassador to the court of her parents, Philip I of Castile and Joanna of Castile, asked their permission for Henry to marry Eleanor. They refused to allow Eleanor to marry when she was fourteen years old. However they agreed to her getting married as soon as possible after she became sixteen years old on 15 November 1514. Joanna was sixteen when she married Philip.
 
Elizabeth of York gave birth to a baby girl on 14 September 1486. She and King Henry VII, her husband, named her Margaret after his mother. Three years later, on 29 November 1489, their much hoped for son was born. They named him Arthur. In May 1491 negotiations began for his marriage to Catherine of Aragon (born 15 December 1485) daughter of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile. Arthur and Catherine were betrothed by proxy in November 1500. However they would not get married until he was fifteen yesrs old. Meanwhile he was created Prince of Wales in 1492. His father appointed him the nominal head of the Council in the Marches of Wales, based at Ludlow. Elizabeth gave birth to a girl on 28 June 1491 and to a boy on 18 March 1496. She and Henry named them Mary and Henry respectively.

Their eldest daughter, Margaret, married James IV, King of Scots, in June 1500, as a condition of the Treaty of Perpetual Peace between England and Scotland. (1) Though as Margaret was only thirteen years old, the marriage would not yet be consumated. She gave birth to seven babies, but only two survived infancy, in fact to adulthood. A son born on 3 October 1505, and a daughter born on 9 May 1512. She and James named them James and Margaret respectively.

Arthur, Prince of Wales, died at Ludlow Castle, on 2 April 1502. He was only twelve years old. His parents were grief stricken. They buried him in Worcester Cathedral, and commissioned Prince Arthur's Chantry, an elaborately decorated chapel in his memory. It was built in Worcester Cathedral in 1504. We do not know how Catherine of Aragon felt. She and Arthur had never met, though they had corresponded by letter. His younger brother, Prince Henry, was too young for her. Instead she married Charles III, Duke of Savoy.

Elizabeth of York, died on 11 February 1503 from postpartum infection following the birth of her daughter, Katherine on 2 February, who died a few days later. Elizabeth was only 37 years old. King Henry was grief stricken. Though he married Elizabeth for political reasons, he loved her deeply. He seriously considered remarrying. In 1505 he sent an ambassador to Naples to report on the suitability of Joanna, Dowager Queen of Naples (born 15 April 1478). He liked what the report said. So they were married in London on 16 October 1505.

Princess Mary, the younger daughter, of Elizabeth and Henry, married King Ferdinand II of Spain on 19 July 1505, his wife, Isabella, having died on 26 November 1504.

(1) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Perpetual_Peace.
I am very excited
 
Henry VIII, James IV, Queen Margaret
There was rivalry between Henry VIII and James IV, King of Scots. James was younger than Henry VII, but 23 years and a day older than Henry VIII. The two men were similar in many ways. They were both highly intelligent, educated and cultired humanist intellctuals, with a strong interest in theology and a deep religious faith.

James renewed the Auld Alliance with France in March 1512. But this was a gesture rather than a commitment to action. Louis XII of France had been trying to renew the alliance since 1508. He could not count on the support of James against England, which was not a member of the Holy League, in the war against France.

The preamble to the Subsidy Act 1512 declared that James was the vassal of Henry. This was an assertion of England's overlordship over Scotland, last made by Edward IV in 1482, and implicitly revoked by the Treaty of Perpetual Peace between the two nations in 1500. The Archbishop of York claimed overlordship over the Scottish Church. (1)

James claimed the English throne through his English wife, Margaret, the eldest child of Henry VII. Another area of tension between James and Henry was a legacy due to Queen Margaret from her father, Henry VII, which Henry VIII continued to withhold, (2)

Because England had not declared war on France, and there were no English troops in that country, James IV did not invade England in 1513. So there was no battle of Flodden.

(1) This paragraph was as in OTL, except that in OTL the Treaty of Perpetual Peace was signed in 1502.

(2) As in OTL.
 
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Queen Margaret, James IV, Henry VIII, Eleanor of Austria, their sons Alexander and Henry
Margaret, Queen of Scots, gave birth to a baby boy on August 1514. She and her husband, James IV, named him Alexander.

Henry VIII married Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria, at Westminster Abbey, on Saturday 14 April 1515. She gave birth to a son on 19 February 1516. She and Henry named him Henry.
 
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Henry VIII is still in his teens and does not have a son so he could be reluctant to be over aggressive and just getting the handle of king ship

And I would imagine he is a different person to otl but being marred into the Hasburge family would pull him into Europe conflicts

It was the English clergy that was very much in support of war with France during that time
 
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