I personally think that this will be more or less the basis for the post-war redrawing of the Soviet-Turkish Border. What do you think?
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Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
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I personally think that this will be more or less the basis for the post-war redrawing of the Soviet-Turkish Border. What do you think?
Yes that's what he meant and the Brits weren't shy using nationalism to get the greek Cypriots in the regiment iotl... I remember seeing some posters that said fight for liberty and greece
Hi guys, I'm new here and I just started reading TTL and I have a question: with "the Kurds" do you mean the State of Aleppo right? Or is it a stake encompassing mainly the Al-Hasakah Governorate?
Hope to hear from you soon!
I know people desperately want to give Armenia a port but I honestly just don’t see that happening. This seems much more likely especially given Stalins homeland.
Not very bad really. They have advanced roughly 100 km from the frontier. In Erzurum they have a railroad available, ironically built by the Russian army in the previous war. On the coast they can run coastal convoys...
They are certainly building trucks, perhaps not in significant numbers but certainly notable ones. Is the tank effort worth it? Quite possibly not. Should they know of it ahead of time and put the effort on other items? This sounds suspiciously like doing everything right...
The geography has some obvious choke-points but as seen by the German invasion or for that matter the modern Greek army armoured forces are more than useful. That said the wisdom of local question is... questionable.
Teymourtash was certainly a very interesting and very capable person (as was his daughter) but what in particular do you have in mind?
That depends on the amount of resources that end up reverted. At the moment the Germans have in the Near East as many divisions as they had in OTL, the burden on the Greek front is mostly falling on Bulgaria and Italian forces at the moment.
Greece in OTL for a time was one of the two fastest growing economies in the world. The other was... Japan. On average between 1950 and 1973 it was growing by 7.7% a year annually... despite the war ending in 1949. What happen TTL... well we are still in 1941.
If Greece could supply small arms ammunition in OTL to the tune of ~50 million rounds, I don;t see why it cannot be done TTL.
The whole army. Five divisions in the Smyrna front, 9 divisions, plus the two mountain brigades, plus a few other odds and ends which for now shall remain unnamed in the mainland. 53 regiments overall, down from 96 in February.
The Sentinel tank may not be such a bad comparison.
Just as a note Triandafilov is in command of only one of the armies not the front.
You'd think you are disparaging German ability at diplomacy and covert operations...
Maybe... then just as likely he will be asking for the 1915 Constantinople agreement to be applied in full...
That was... the prime recruiting slogan of the Cyprus regiment in OTL. Though TTL if things go well for Greece it may not be that easy for Britain to forget.
It's the sixth statelet of TTL Syria created in 1922 a bit more detail can be found in part 17. TTL the French could hold somewhat to the north of the OTL border. But this added tens of thousands more Kurds into Syria in geographically distinct territory. If the French had no issue creating a Druze and a Alewite state OTL while there were some proposals of a Kurdish state in the first place...
I'm not inclined to comment one way or the other at the moment, beyond noting this a problem shared with others like the Kurds and the Assyrians. TTL at least Armenia has a much longer border with Iran for what it may or may not be worth...
Having just gone to mparoutadiko for a walk a thought has hit me... Where exactly in athens are the war industries located? For certain there are not located in aigaleo..because aigaleo doesn't exist ittl(i mean the municipality not the mountain of course)
Population and municipalities of TTL Athens
Does this help any?
| Municipalities of Athens TTL | 1920 | 1940 |
|---|---|---|
| Αθήνα - Athens | 292991 | 404000 |
| Πειραιάς - Piraeus | 133482 | 150892 |
| Αγία Παρασκευή - Agia Parasleui | 0 | 3557 |
| Αιγάλεω - Aigaleo | 180 | 180 |
| Άλιμος - Alimos | 958 | 2735 |
| Αμφιάλη - Amphiali | 22 | 1462 |
| Βάρη - Vari | 0 | 857 |
| Βούλα - Voula | 31 | 1471 |
| Βουλιαγμένη - Vouliagmeni | 59 | 694 |
| Βριλήσσια - Vrilissia | 60 | 305 |
| Γαλάτσι - Galatsi | 319 | 319 |
| Γέρακας - Gerakas | 45 | 45 |
| Γλαυκεία - Glaukeia | 972 | 3796 |
| Γλυφάδα - Glyfada | 173 | 3148 |
| Εκάλη - Ekali | 0 | 708 |
| Ελληνικό - Hellenikon | 32 | 3473 |
| Ζωγράφου - Zografou | 11 | 5310 |
| Ηλιούπολη - Helioupolis | 61 | 3911 |
| Ηράκλειο - Heraklion | 420 | 3536 |
| Καλλιθέα - Kallithea | 6644 | 37953 |
| Καματερό - Kamatero | 486 | 5312 |
| Κηφισιά - Kifisia | 3385 | 14201 |
| Λευκονόη - Leukonoe | 1244 | 4744 |
| Κορυδαλλός - Korydallos | 78 | 78 |
| Μαρούσι - Marousi | 3450 | 9565 |
| Πεντέλη - Penteli | 0 | 3367 |
| Ρέντης - Renti | 1457 | 3383 |
| Φάληρο - Phaleron | 2349 | 9133 |
| Φιλοθέη - Pilothei | 0 | 1173 |
| Χαλάνδρι - Chalandri | 1897 | 11297 |
| Χαϊδάρι - Chaidari | 551 | 5868 |
| Χολαργός - Cholargos | 0 | 1054 |
| Ψυχικό - Psychikon | 64 | 2568 |
| TTL Municipality | Corresponding OTL municipalities |
|---|---|
| Αθήνα | Athens |
| Πειραιάς | Piraεus |
| Αγία Παρασκευή | Ag Paraskeui |
| Αιγάλεω | Aigalaio |
| Ag Varvara | |
| Άλιμος | Ag Dimitrios |
| Alimos | |
| Dafni | |
| Αμφιαλη | Drapetsona |
| Keratsini | |
| Perama | |
| Βαρη | Bari |
| Βούλα | Boula |
| Βουλιαγμένη | Vouliagmeni |
| Βριλησσια | Vrilissia |
| Γαλάτσι | Galatsi |
| Γερακας | Gerakas |
| Γλαυκεια | Koukoubaounes |
| Peuki | |
| Lykovrysi | |
| Γλυφάδα | Glyfada |
| Εκάλη | Ekali |
| Ελληνικό | Elliniko |
| Argyroupoli | |
| Ζωγράφου | Zografou |
| Byronas | |
| Kaisariani | |
| Ηλιούπολη | Helioupolis |
| Ymittos | |
| Ηράκλειο | Herakleio |
| N Ionia | |
| Καλλιθέα | Kallithea |
| Mosxato | |
| Tauros | |
| Καματερό | Ag Anariroi |
| Kamatero | |
| N Filadelfeia | |
| N Halkidona | |
| Κηφισιά | Kifisia |
| N Erythraia | |
| Κορυδαλλος | Korydallos |
| Λευκονόη | N Liosia |
| Peristeri | |
| Petroupoli | |
| Μαρούσι | Marousi |
| Πεντέλη | Melissia |
| Penteli | |
| N Penteli | |
| Ρέντης | Nikaia |
| Renti | |
| Φαληρο | P Faliro |
| N Smyrni | |
| Φιλοθέη | Filothei |
| Χαλάνδρι | Xalandri |
| Χαϊδάρι | Xaidari |
| Χολαργος | Holargos |
| Papagou | |
| Ψυχικό | N Psychiko |
| Psychiko |
Yes it did help...now with greece having some respite with the germans in the soviet union could she transport some of the refugees in Smyrna to athens? It would ease the supply situation in Smyrna and at the same time provide some manpower to the Athenian factories with the men working in the heavy industry and with women in light industries such as clothes and blankets... lucky Greece has still some significant cotton and wool productions and last but not least with the population of smyrna basically doubling without the appropriate infrastructure disease would be an issue specially waterborne diseases like cholera (maybe i don't the water supply system in Smyrna but it can't be as Athens at the turn of the 20th century)
Hasn't the Axis airpower damaged the Greek industries at all? I mean with bases in Thessaly they can wreak havoc on Athens and the Peloponnese. At least when the Germans were seriously trying to break through. So new tools would be needed to replace the old.
Of course it has damaged them. How much is something of a different question.
Hi @Lascaris, I had some free time during these holidays and decided to make two maps of TTL pre-WW2 Europe:
01/01/1935
31/08/1939
I updated the map in order to improve the mandate of Syria and the Armenian SSR borders.
01/01/1935
31/08/1939
I updated the map in order to improve the mandate of Syria and the Armenian SSR borders.
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@Lascaris shouldn't Syria be independent in 1939? If yes then should the Kurdish, Alawite, and Lebanese states still be shown as "French blue" or independent?
A possibly ill thought in retrospect, plebiscite in September 1938 won by Turkey, the details are in part 47...
Technically yes the French had signed a treaty making Syria independent. In effect it remains a French
@Lascaris I would like to ask you a question: why did the French annex Sirnak when in OTL they had no intention to? In TTL France would have kept the OTL Treaty of Sevres in which, as shown here http://www.hri.org/docs/sevres/map1.html, wanted to stay behind the Tigris river and annex only until Cizre. Can you please explain why they changed their mind in TTL?
Did it? I did mention parts of the Sirnak province in part 17 but not Sirnak itself IMS. The Tigris is the logical border as long as the railroad remains on the French side of it.