Why any additional Soviet SSR would get it? The Soviets already got three seats. Next they will be insisting on one for every one of the 15 SSRs.
Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
Sure, and more logical than Armenia is asking for such a status for the Baltics.
I mean, all 15 was their original position OTL. They were negotiated down to three. It’s easy enough to negotiate down to a different number.
Part 147
Thessaloniki, June 1st, 1944
"Major you are to..." the words of Orde Wingate were cut short at the sight of William Slim. It wasn't usual to meet your new army commander stark naked as you were out of the shower. The 1st Palestine Division officers and soldiers, Israeli and Cypriots alike had grown accustomed to the eccentricities of their commanding officer. Slim recently promoted to lieutenant general and given command of the 10th Army in Greece, hadn't lost any time inspecting the units of his new command without prior warning...
Pristina, June 3rd, 1944
Formation of the division, as an Albanian unit, had begun back in April. Between news of the fall of Turkey and the Greek advance into Albania recruitment had been problematic despite the best efforts of the leadership of the 2nd League of Prizren. But the surrender of Turkey had opened a new source of manpower. Nearly 49,000 Turkish soldiers in Europe had been disarmed by the Germans and Bulgarians. When offered the choice between prisoner of war camps or joining the Germans to continue the fight against the Greeks and the British almost a fifth had chosen the latter. To this had been added nearly 6,500 Albanians and a number of German officers and noncoms, the Turkish officers and noncoms that had joined the Germans had not been numerous enough to command the division on their own. With the division repurposed as a Turkish one Hitler had given it, what he deemed an appropriate name. And thus 21 Waffen Grenadier Division der SS "Ataturk" joined the German armies in the Balkans.
London, June 3rd, 1944
The French empire and Corsica, the only free part of metropolitan France, were being administered since September 1942, by the CFNL, the French Committee of National Liberation. Now this gave way to a provisional government of the republic established under Charles De Gaulle who had just reached London from Algiers on the advice of Winston Churchill. Not everyone was happy with this, president Roosevelt remained suspicious of De Gaulle and had been persuaded only at the last minute by his cabinet and general Eisenhower not to insist to administer liberated France as occupied territory.
Normandy, June 6th, 1944
Salamis begun hurling 16 inch shells at the German positions alongside Lemnos, Averof, the French heavy cruisers Foch and Colbert and over a dozen Greek and French destroyers. Nearly seven thousand Allied ships from nine nations were descending on the coast of Normandy with almost 133,000 soldiers aboard, over 23,000 soldiers had already been airdropped overnight. The Royal Navy was providing the bulk of the fleet with over four thousand ships, with the USN providing most of the rest and French, Greek, Canadian, Polish, Norwegian, Dutch and Irish warships rounding up the numbers...
Karelian isthmus, June 10th, 1944
One more day passed quietly for the Finnish front-line troops. Secret Finnish-Soviet negotiations for an armistice had gone nowhere so far but it looked like the Soviets had no interest, or lacked the numbers to take the offensive against Finland, Finnish intelligence indicated that general Govorov, the commander of the Leningrad front had been moved to command operations in Narva without someone replacing him in command of the forces opposite Finland. Thus the Finnish government was not in a particular hurry. As long as the Germans held at Narva, which it looked like they would continue to do at least for the immediate future Finland's supply lines were secure and they could continue negotiations in hope of securing better terms.
London, June 13th, 1944
The buzzing sound would be followed by a large explosion as the 850kg of the first V-1 flying bomb launched against the city blew up, The V-1s were anything but accurate and could be countered, over the next three months over 40% of the V-1s launched against Britain and be shot down. But they would still cause disproportionate casualties to their cost while tying down large numbers of anti-aircraft guns and fast interceptors to deal with them.
Saipan, June 15th, 1944
US forces begun landing on the island. The Imperial Japanese Navy was already on its way to contest the landings...
Thessaloniki, June 17th, 1944
Another shipload of railroad equipment was unloaded into the port. By now engineering troops, in addition to the Greeks a 30,000 men contingent of the US Corps of Engineers was present in the country expanding infrastructure [1], had rebuilt the railroad from Larisa to Thessaloniki and from there to the front as a double track one. But preparations had to be in place to repair and expand the railroads when the offensive into Serbia and Bulgaria came if it was not to fizzle for lack of supplies.
Philippine Sea, June 19th, 1944
The USN had not fought a major engagement with the Japanese navy since the battle of Santa Cruz islands in October 1942. But with the Americans invading the Marianas islands the Japanese could not just let the Americans take them. This was the time of the decisive battle to be fought. On paper the force the IJN was bringing to battle was quite impressive with 9 aircraft carriers including the band new Taiho, the world's largest aircraft carrier, the veteran Shokaku and Zuikaku and 6 light carriers with 450 aircraft between them. But the days of relative parity between the two fleets were over. The Americans along the veteran USS Enterprise, were bringing to battle six more Essex class carriers and 7 light carriers [2] with almost twice as many aircraft as the Japanese. In two days of fighting the Japanese would lose Shokaku, Zuikaku and the light carrier Jun'yo and over 400 aircraft. The Americans would lose 128 aircraft [3] and have the battleship USS Alabama damaged by a bomb hit.
[1] A side effect of Iran being, mostly, willingly on the side of the Allies, is the Iranians taking up an increasing share of the work on the Persian corridor...
[2] USS Monteray was sunk in action in action at Tarawa in October 1943 so 1 less carrier.
[3] US forces without Monteray are slightly weaker hence the somewhat highter losses but overal not that much weaker.
"Major you are to..." the words of Orde Wingate were cut short at the sight of William Slim. It wasn't usual to meet your new army commander stark naked as you were out of the shower. The 1st Palestine Division officers and soldiers, Israeli and Cypriots alike had grown accustomed to the eccentricities of their commanding officer. Slim recently promoted to lieutenant general and given command of the 10th Army in Greece, hadn't lost any time inspecting the units of his new command without prior warning...
Pristina, June 3rd, 1944
Formation of the division, as an Albanian unit, had begun back in April. Between news of the fall of Turkey and the Greek advance into Albania recruitment had been problematic despite the best efforts of the leadership of the 2nd League of Prizren. But the surrender of Turkey had opened a new source of manpower. Nearly 49,000 Turkish soldiers in Europe had been disarmed by the Germans and Bulgarians. When offered the choice between prisoner of war camps or joining the Germans to continue the fight against the Greeks and the British almost a fifth had chosen the latter. To this had been added nearly 6,500 Albanians and a number of German officers and noncoms, the Turkish officers and noncoms that had joined the Germans had not been numerous enough to command the division on their own. With the division repurposed as a Turkish one Hitler had given it, what he deemed an appropriate name. And thus 21 Waffen Grenadier Division der SS "Ataturk" joined the German armies in the Balkans.
London, June 3rd, 1944
The French empire and Corsica, the only free part of metropolitan France, were being administered since September 1942, by the CFNL, the French Committee of National Liberation. Now this gave way to a provisional government of the republic established under Charles De Gaulle who had just reached London from Algiers on the advice of Winston Churchill. Not everyone was happy with this, president Roosevelt remained suspicious of De Gaulle and had been persuaded only at the last minute by his cabinet and general Eisenhower not to insist to administer liberated France as occupied territory.
Normandy, June 6th, 1944
Salamis begun hurling 16 inch shells at the German positions alongside Lemnos, Averof, the French heavy cruisers Foch and Colbert and over a dozen Greek and French destroyers. Nearly seven thousand Allied ships from nine nations were descending on the coast of Normandy with almost 133,000 soldiers aboard, over 23,000 soldiers had already been airdropped overnight. The Royal Navy was providing the bulk of the fleet with over four thousand ships, with the USN providing most of the rest and French, Greek, Canadian, Polish, Norwegian, Dutch and Irish warships rounding up the numbers...
Karelian isthmus, June 10th, 1944
One more day passed quietly for the Finnish front-line troops. Secret Finnish-Soviet negotiations for an armistice had gone nowhere so far but it looked like the Soviets had no interest, or lacked the numbers to take the offensive against Finland, Finnish intelligence indicated that general Govorov, the commander of the Leningrad front had been moved to command operations in Narva without someone replacing him in command of the forces opposite Finland. Thus the Finnish government was not in a particular hurry. As long as the Germans held at Narva, which it looked like they would continue to do at least for the immediate future Finland's supply lines were secure and they could continue negotiations in hope of securing better terms.
London, June 13th, 1944
The buzzing sound would be followed by a large explosion as the 850kg of the first V-1 flying bomb launched against the city blew up, The V-1s were anything but accurate and could be countered, over the next three months over 40% of the V-1s launched against Britain and be shot down. But they would still cause disproportionate casualties to their cost while tying down large numbers of anti-aircraft guns and fast interceptors to deal with them.
Saipan, June 15th, 1944
US forces begun landing on the island. The Imperial Japanese Navy was already on its way to contest the landings...
Thessaloniki, June 17th, 1944
Another shipload of railroad equipment was unloaded into the port. By now engineering troops, in addition to the Greeks a 30,000 men contingent of the US Corps of Engineers was present in the country expanding infrastructure [1], had rebuilt the railroad from Larisa to Thessaloniki and from there to the front as a double track one. But preparations had to be in place to repair and expand the railroads when the offensive into Serbia and Bulgaria came if it was not to fizzle for lack of supplies.
Philippine Sea, June 19th, 1944
The USN had not fought a major engagement with the Japanese navy since the battle of Santa Cruz islands in October 1942. But with the Americans invading the Marianas islands the Japanese could not just let the Americans take them. This was the time of the decisive battle to be fought. On paper the force the IJN was bringing to battle was quite impressive with 9 aircraft carriers including the band new Taiho, the world's largest aircraft carrier, the veteran Shokaku and Zuikaku and 6 light carriers with 450 aircraft between them. But the days of relative parity between the two fleets were over. The Americans along the veteran USS Enterprise, were bringing to battle six more Essex class carriers and 7 light carriers [2] with almost twice as many aircraft as the Japanese. In two days of fighting the Japanese would lose Shokaku, Zuikaku and the light carrier Jun'yo and over 400 aircraft. The Americans would lose 128 aircraft [3] and have the battleship USS Alabama damaged by a bomb hit.
[1] A side effect of Iran being, mostly, willingly on the side of the Allies, is the Iranians taking up an increasing share of the work on the Persian corridor...
[2] USS Monteray was sunk in action in action at Tarawa in October 1943 so 1 less carrier.
[3] US forces without Monteray are slightly weaker hence the somewhat highter losses but overal not that much weaker.
As a nitpick, wasn't Algeria considered as French as the heartland by the French, and as such would be deemed part of the Metropole?
Well, i am glad to see that I was right. In which sector are the Greek and French ships allocated?
That makes sense, and the Turks going to help the Germans makes way too much sense.
Ooh so Salamis is fighting with the Allied command? That is quite good for the Wallies. More ships available = better right?
btw where's the Italian navy ittl? Are they the ones partrolling the Med?
I hope we see another push for Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Dealing with the Balkans is needed, and with Germany probably having to focus on the western front I see them being left for dead soonish.
And so the Americans strike back much as per otl. Makes sense considering the circumstances.
Mike Collins got delayed reading news of the Greek-Turkish peace settlement at the wrong, or right moment. Fast forward two decades...
Ireland entered the war years ago ITTL due to closer relations with Britain and German U-boat attacks. I don't think their units have seen much action yet, but an Irish division on the western front would be cool.
I’m curious, do the extra ships help the insufficient bombardment at Omaha at all? is everything basically the same? You don’t note any difference in the immediate aftermath, which makes sense as it isn’t that big of an impact. Not to much should have changed if Omaha was a bit less bloody.
Besides that it’s fun to see a lot of whom we assume TTL NATO’s founders will be together in a line up like that. It’s like in a heist movie when they’re assembling a crew.
I think Ireland and Greece are obvious founding members ITTL, but then again if Greece is in from the get go will they call even wind up calling it NATO?
Shouldn't it say September 1943 since TTL Corsica was taken over by the Allies in August 1943?
Perhaps it would be called the 'North Hemisphere Treaty Organisation' ittl
Indeed, also, Greece might probably be invited too, to the 'Brussels Pact' and be part of the Western European Union (WEU) that TTL may be acknowledging the inclusion of Greece,perhaps renamed as something like 'Pan/Inter European Union'...
Without mention that even if Spain will remain as it seems pro allied but non belligerent , may be possible that it may be invited shortly that the treaty will be signed.
Why not let it known, as traditionally are known most treaties, for the city in what it will be signed on?
Last edited:
I think a EU that occurs would be mostly like otl where it starts with the european steel and coal community first, but a 'Brussels pact' would be something that's quite cool.
If we get something like the coal and steel community/EU I hope we'd get a different capital this time round. Personally a Rome based EU would be quite fun, but Brussels still makes the most sense. Antwerp would work too.
I think it being called the Brussels Pact is ok. Let's just see how Lascaris write this out.
Probably? Or at least I don’t think the inclusion of Greece or Ireland will be directly related to any change in name or scope. Italy was a founding member OTL so the Mediterranean was obviously included in said concept of the “North Atlantic”. Luxembourg doesn’t even have a coast after all.
What I think could change is the initial scope/size. We’ve seen the Australians and New Zealanders do a lot of heavy lifting in North Africa and the Middle East, Persia is an active ally, and that says nothing of the much more active and impressive performance by the groups in the Middle East that have volunteered on the Allied side. One could argue that those fall more into the wheel house of something like SEATO, but nothing says that organization even forms in TTL if it’s already NATO’s turf.
It is not widely known but there was also the Central Treaty Organization (else known as The Baghdad Pact) , modelled after NATO. However it was largelly unsuccessful. Perhaps ITTL it could have more luck (and include Kurdistan and Assyria too).
Ramontxo
Donor
Aren't you all interfering with God's Plan?
Better not to provoke the Almighty and let the Pact be signed in Rome..
Last edited: