NO Habsburg Spain.. .. Isabella I's children dying before her.....

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kaiidth

kaiidth

A World where Isabella of Castile had lived longer than all her children and had no grandchildren.​

A what if? Idea.

We all know about the children of Isabella I of Castile and Leon and her Husband Ferdinand II of Aragorn and how their lives turned out.......

But what happened if all the children of the Isabella died before the Queen's own death in 1504?

Even worse, what if all her children died before any of them produced a living child of their own, so that not even the children of Joanna and Maria would be there in this TL?

Who would then be the next King/Queen of Castile and Leon, who would be the wife of the King of Portugal, who would be Henry VIII's first wife?

What would Emperor Maximilian I be doing without any living grandchildren?

And so many questions more......


This means a world without Habsburgs as Kings of Spain, this means that the Royal siblings from Hungary/Bohemia will have to have different Spouses too.
 
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Forword : About Isabella’s dead kids...
  • Index
    • kaiidth

    kaiidth

    The oldest daughter and the son are the easiest, since they died in OTL long before their mother..

    -Isabella (first wife of Manuel I of Portugal) died 1498, about an our after giving birth to her son, Miguel Da Paz (who died in 1500 like in OTL)

    -John of Asturias (first husband of Margaret of Habsburg) died in 1497 and his wife had a stillbirth later on

    -Joanna, who had a shitty life in OTL but was also the mother of the whole Habsburg House with her husband Philip of Habsburg, dies here (unlike she did OTL) like her older sister did, barely an hour after giving birth. On top of that, her oldest/only child here, Eleonor will not long survive for long either, dying at the age of 2 years in late 1500.

    -Maria goes nearly the same way like Joanna does here, she dies alongside her second child in 1503, while her first child had died shortly after birth a year before, thus leaving Manuel I of Portugal once again widowed and childless in 1503.

    -Catherine dies with her first husband Arthur from the fever in 1502.
     
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    • kasumigenx

    kasumigenx

    kaiidth said:
    The oldest daughter and the son are the easiest, since they died in OTL long before their mother..

    -Isabella (first wife of Manuel I of Portugal) died 1498, about an our after giving birth to her son, Miguel Da Paz (who died in 1500 like in OTL)

    -John of Asturias (first husband of Margaret of Habsburg) died in 1497 and his wife had a stillbirth later on

    -Joanna, who had a shitty life in OTL but was also the mother of the whole Habsburg House with her husband Philip of Habsburg, dies here (unlike she did OTL) like her older sister did, barely an hour after giving birth. On top of that, her oldest/only child here, Eleonor will not long survive after, making them both dead in the Year 1498.

    -Maria goes the same way like Joanna does here, she too dies after her first child, who himself dies shortly after, both in 1502 leaving Manuel I of Portugal once again widowed and childless. (legitimate)

    -Catherine dies with her first husband Arthur from the fever in 1502.
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    Margaret of Austria would remarry perhaps to her Wittelsbach cousins to cement their succession in the Austrian inheritance.
     
    Kynan

    Kynan

    Ok so, in Spain, you have a goddamn mess. Assuming in this scenario most of Isabella and Ferdinand's children survive their childhood's but die decently young, you might even kill off Isabella earlier than OTL. But let's say she manages to survive until 1504, just for consistency's sake.

    These are the deaths I'm going to go ahead with:
    • Isabella of Aragon (b.1470) dies pretty much the same as OTL, and Miguel de Paz follows suite.
    • Juan, Prince of Asturias (b.1478) also follows the same path, including married and posthumous stillborn daughter with Margaret of Austria.
    • Joanna of Aragon (b.1479) dies shortly after arriving in Burgundy, in an illness that also takes her husband.
    • Maria of Aragon (b.1482) dies during her pregnancy with OTL John III of Portugal.
    • Catherine of Aragon (b.1485) dies in 1501 of the same illness that took her husband, Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales.
    Between 1497 and 1502 all the young people are dead.

    What now?

    Well, some sources claim Ferdinand proposed a marriage with Juana of Castile (Joanna la Beltraneja) around the time of Isabella's death, and here, even if she doesn't accept it, she could still take the throne where she has no real competition. Ferdinand is likely to just claim it all for himself anyway, but maybe she would be able to take power. At 42, she's unlikely to have any children, Ferdinand or otherwise (although it isn't an insane prospect), and considering she didn't accept this alleged suite, let's assume she rebuffs him again. They end up in yet another major war for Castile, and if she does win, then she's got a long time before her OTL death in 1530 to set upon an heir. OTL she apparently favoured the King of Portugal, so we might see that here.

    Ferdinand, in a scenario where he's completely lost Castile and is unattached, is likely to do what he did OTL and marry a French Proxy. If he doesn't look to France, Portugal has an option in Manuel's niece by his sister Isabel, the Infanta Catarina of Braganza (if she actually existed, because it's hard to find firm evidence one way or another). But honestly, Germaine of Foix makes the most sense. Unless he marries his niece. But that's gross and I'm going to ignore it as an option.

    What I'm not going to ignore is that his niece is probably his heir in this scenario. Joanna of Aragon isn't about to marry and produce a male heir at 49/50, so Joanna, OTL never to marry again after her weird incestuous marriage to her nephew. Here, she probably gets to marry a second time to whoever they can find that Ferdinand would be ok with with. My best bet is that she marries Gaston of Foix, Germaine of Foix's brother, in maybe an alternate pro-French match that also adds legitimacy to Ferdinand's Navarrese ambitions.

    Now it's time for outside of Spain.

    In England, Henry VII needs to find a bride for the future Henry VIII now that Spain has no easy descendants of Philippa of Lancaster to offer. Again, if Catarina of Braganza exists, she's a good option. They might, try for Margaret of Austria or Sibylle of Bavaria. Most likely, that dream is given up entirely and Henry is betrothed to whoever makes the most sense politically. Probably someone like Anne of Navarre.

    In Brussels, if Philip of Austria is dead, then the widowed Margaret of Austria is Duchess of Burgundy and the only option left for Maximilian if Bianca Sforza isn't going to have a surviving child. If the marriage with Savoy even happens, it's unlikely to be her last, and she may end up with her Bavarian cousin. She could also consider an English match. It's unlikely, but if nothing else it'd be interesting.

    Now for Manuel, the world is pretty much his oyster, but he also needs to move fast. He's had two brides die one after the other, and there's no obvious domestic brides (except the elusive possibly imaginary Caterina). I can imagine him pushing for Joanna of Naples, but maybe after two attempts he's unsettled by the Trastamara brides and goes elsewhere. I'm not sure where he would look in specific, Mary Tudor is too young, there's no French brides available that won't be in contention elsewhere.

    Weirdly enough, I can see Kunigunde of Austria's Bavarian daughters becoming surprisingly big prize brides in this scenario, just because there's a distinct lack of royal women available from the regular big guns. Also the Navarrese girls.
     
    ordinarylittleme

    ordinarylittleme

    There is no Henry XIII...
    That being said, if Isabella outlives all her children, then she will be succeeded by any children of Joanna la Beltraneja. Henry will wed Anne of Pomerania or Navarre, Sabina of Bavaria perhaps. Arthur on the other hand likely dies without a wife. Manuel I marries Cecily of York or Joan of France
     
    Archduke

    Archduke

    Is it not possible for Ferdinand to hold on to Castile, remarry, and unite the crowns with a more Aragonese flavor?
     
    kasumigenx

    kasumigenx

    Perhaps have Isabella of Aragon die while prior to her marriage with Manuel causing Manuel to marry Maria but both Maria and Juana die before reaching their respective husbands, and Catherine dies due to an illness in Castile and Manuel marries La Beltraneja.
     
    Archduke

    Archduke

    ordinarylittleme said:
    How, exactly, will he hold onto Castile once Isabella dies, considering they are now officially childless?
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    As far as I am aware he is the official heir. After Isabella, he is the only legitimate descendant of John I of Castile as the grandson of John I’s second son, Ferdinand. Meanwhile Isabella was the granddaughter of John I’s first son, Henry. Historically, Ferdinand only didn’t hold a legal position because his own children were before him in the line of succession. But in this case, they are dead.
     
    ordinarylittleme

    ordinarylittleme

    Archduke said:
    As far as I am aware he is the official heir. After Isabella, he is the only legitimate descendant of John I of Castile as the grandson of John I’s second son, Ferdinand. Meanwhile Isabella was the granddaughter of John I’s first son, Henry. Historically, Ferdinand only didn’t hold a legal position because his own children were before him in the line of succession. But in this case, they are dead.
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    Is he? Interesting, thank you for pointing that out
     
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