Really enjoying this TL. Can't wait to see what happens next! Obviously this version of Dick Nixon will have a much better reputation ITTL than he does in OTL.
World Without Watergate-Revamped.
- Thread starter Realpolitik
- Start date
Realpolitik
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That's not a high bar to pass, but generally, yeah.
I think I'm going to do the next post from Pat Nixon's POV on the 1976 race. She's an underrated character.
Realpolitik
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The key is the difference in focus for South Korea. It's the sweet spot-South Korea is pursuing a more independent policy without having to completely freak out about the USA. And as I've implied, Vietnam isn't going away either.
Also, I'm going to ask the website a question: Which one do you want first? To see Pat Nixon think about the GOP national convention(not only reveal who's going to be on the ticket, but I also want to delve into her and the strains that politics brought to her life. She's a relatively unknown first lady.), or to see a teenage Hassan Nasrallah in Lebanon, and get more details on what's going down in the Middle East? I have a bunch of scenes in my mind, but I don't know which should go first and how to write them.
Realpolitik
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The Carnation Revolution was in 1974, so it doesn't affect either Yom Kippur or the Angolan Affair in 1976.
Nixon really can't do anything about the fall of the Estado Novo, even though I suspect he'd be rather suspicious of it after the Azores helping him the previous year and annoyed at the left cheering it on. Bigger fish to fry with the Arabs, Chinese, Russians, and others at the height of his power in 1974.
Realpolitik
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Or not.
“I think you would make a good President, Ron. I'm just concerned about some of those nuts hanging around you, talking about health care and Panama and Israel.”
Pat Nixon had gotten to the point where she didn't even care about the fact that he was lying through his teeth. Either Reagan actually believed that-which wouldn't shock her at all-or he pretended to believe it. He was a politician, after all. That's what they were... "Politicians." She couldn't help but feel as though her mind spat out the word as if it were rotten sinew that she saw Hua Guofeng eat that February. China was a very interesting place, but in some ways...
As she sat on Air Force One near that fat smug sociopath Kissinger(who looked WAY too pleased with himself for her liking) and that proto-Nazi robot, Haldeman*(how the hell did she get a reputation as inhuman when there was him?!), she couldn't help but wonder how she made it through all of this. She knew, deep down in her gut, when she met Dick that he would be going places. That he would be in history. That's what eventually made her agree to go on a date with him. And he was so fun back then-they never knew him... But she never imagined this. Never could have imagined this.
Now, they were actually going back to California at the end of the year. Perhaps, he would finally be happy. No, that was too much. She knew her fate. They'd be hounded. She thought they would be gone after '60, after '62, after '68, after '72... they never left. The Kennedys, the Stevensons, the McGrorys of the world, to whom she was just some doll without thoughts of her own, who kept on bleating about the fire and brimstone that Dick threw, without reflecting on how they threw five times as much. And the press. Oh, God, the press... “Plastic Pat”. Jackie was elegant and graceful as she stayed in shape, Lady Bird was sweet, homesome, and unfailing, she was just “skinny” and "robot-like". She didn't care about being loved, curse them, she would settle for being ignored! Ever since Hiss, ever since that humiliating day in '52, when she had to sit on TV and watch as the humiliating financial details were let out, one by one. Well, she pushed him to it when he nearly backed out... she was a fighter, like Dick, in spite of it all. But Dick lived off of hatred. She... just couldn't join her sad, strange husband there. He was so desperate to be a man...
And on the other hand, there were the fawning idiots in their party and moreso AT the parties, treating them as if they were some other species that human. She didn't want an entourage or French cuisine every night. Why was she treated as insane for not wanting that?
That one woman, that Steinem, in her sunglasses, she remembered her expression when she let go about her childhood. She truly came from a different world. Dick signed the ERA after she pressed him. The Abzug types didn't appreciate it, they never did. They didn't know. She couldn't help but think about where these new women were going. Clearly, things would continue to change. Female President? Wonder what Dick would think of that...** She was from a different generation, she guessed-she couldn't get behind all the bra-burning and the calling out of male chauvinism. A reserved dignity was nothing to be ashamed of. But deep down, she knew her gender was stronger. Decades of world experience had proved it. After all, she was able to do what nobody else could-get Dick to reveal what he really thought. Sometimes. She still saw glimpses of him. But they were immediately suffocated when any of the boys came around. He was so removed from it all, the Kissingers and Haldemans made sure of it, reinforcing his latent tendencies rather that doing what she did and forcing him to go out.
Well... maybe that would change after the White House? She hoped, but she didn't dare expect.
She knew better than to moan about her problems. There were parts to her job, parts the media didn't care about, and parts she didn't want them to care about. She remembered those wounded boys in Saigon, who her handlers tried to prevent her from seeing, those children in Peru... ordinary people. She had done her best to try and make sure that for the first time, the White House was open to everybody, not just the rich and famous. The Washington Post had problems with it, calling it safe and dull and so typical of the Nixon's, but that was so insignificant. Nothing made her simultaneously more happy and more sad than to help people with real problems. Problems away from DC, a city so artificial. Not stupid Washington hostesses, not press reporters who wanted a story. Sometimes she wondered if Dick, being a little consigliere or some Benjamin Disraeli in his own mind, forgot about all that. Forgot where he came from. Occasionally he didn't. More often, he did. She had always liked people. She never... understood why he didn't. Deep down, she knew she never would know the drive there, what drove him into this. Though she could definitely point as to why these tendencies were increased, of course.
She thought about who would be the next poor lady to be subjected to the treatment. Rosalyn Carter didn't look happy on the TV recordings from last night. “It's called being handled, honey, get used to it”, she thought. But Carter had stumbled. Something about not being strong enough with a decaying America. She didn't really care anymore. The convention there was going to be interesting. Not the least here, since everybody knew Reagan was going to win. The man really led a movement. Dick had tried, teamed up with of all people, Rockefeller, a man he had despised, to try and prevent that. No go. He had really set the genie out of the bottle in 1968. Her husband was, if nothing else, aware of that. She remembered him quoting some ancient poem on a mortal that struck a Faustian bargain with the gods, as that glimpse of the man she still loved showed up...
“We're here...” George. Good. She didn't know if she could stand Henry or Bob right now. She even heard that CHUCK of all people was going to be here. Oh God...One of the few men she could stand. Nice guy. Her husband had nothing but praise for him. Too bad that nice couldn't win in politics. Her husband believed that back in the 40s, but he fortunately, or unfortunately, wisened up.
Put a smile on, and remember to tell Nancy how sick she would eventually get of these ceremonies, and at the end of it, she could cross off another day in the countdown...
*Pat Nixon was not a fan of many of the people her husband surrounded herself with and thought they were a bad influence on him. Like a lot of other things, she was right. I'd imagine that by summer of 1976, she'd be at the end of her rope.
She was a seriously interesting first lady-the first one to be in a combat zone, actually. The story about her seeing the boys against the will of her handlers is true. The big difference between Pat and her husband was this-Pat was authentically a good human being who loved people. Dick wasn't. He was FASCINATED by humans, like a Martian scientist would be, and would study them. But not like them. He loved politics, and Pat hated it, and that's related in my view.
In spite of all that though, their relationship was up and down, but after Watergate, after they got back to California, stronger than ever. Nixon could come back from anything except her death-I think that's what partially killed him. He was beyond emotional at the funeral.
In my view, it's kind of obvious that Rocky's time had past and that Reagan was going to win, so there won't be much convention controversy. Richard Schweiker is VP to appease Nixon. He is the weaker position due to his lame-duckness and alienation from much of the party.
**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UBQgDDuWc
I could definitely see Pat pushing a wavering husband on the ERA.
“I think you would make a good President, Ron. I'm just concerned about some of those nuts hanging around you, talking about health care and Panama and Israel.”
Pat Nixon had gotten to the point where she didn't even care about the fact that he was lying through his teeth. Either Reagan actually believed that-which wouldn't shock her at all-or he pretended to believe it. He was a politician, after all. That's what they were... "Politicians." She couldn't help but feel as though her mind spat out the word as if it were rotten sinew that she saw Hua Guofeng eat that February. China was a very interesting place, but in some ways...
As she sat on Air Force One near that fat smug sociopath Kissinger(who looked WAY too pleased with himself for her liking) and that proto-Nazi robot, Haldeman*(how the hell did she get a reputation as inhuman when there was him?!), she couldn't help but wonder how she made it through all of this. She knew, deep down in her gut, when she met Dick that he would be going places. That he would be in history. That's what eventually made her agree to go on a date with him. And he was so fun back then-they never knew him... But she never imagined this. Never could have imagined this.
Now, they were actually going back to California at the end of the year. Perhaps, he would finally be happy. No, that was too much. She knew her fate. They'd be hounded. She thought they would be gone after '60, after '62, after '68, after '72... they never left. The Kennedys, the Stevensons, the McGrorys of the world, to whom she was just some doll without thoughts of her own, who kept on bleating about the fire and brimstone that Dick threw, without reflecting on how they threw five times as much. And the press. Oh, God, the press... “Plastic Pat”. Jackie was elegant and graceful as she stayed in shape, Lady Bird was sweet, homesome, and unfailing, she was just “skinny” and "robot-like". She didn't care about being loved, curse them, she would settle for being ignored! Ever since Hiss, ever since that humiliating day in '52, when she had to sit on TV and watch as the humiliating financial details were let out, one by one. Well, she pushed him to it when he nearly backed out... she was a fighter, like Dick, in spite of it all. But Dick lived off of hatred. She... just couldn't join her sad, strange husband there. He was so desperate to be a man...
And on the other hand, there were the fawning idiots in their party and moreso AT the parties, treating them as if they were some other species that human. She didn't want an entourage or French cuisine every night. Why was she treated as insane for not wanting that?
That one woman, that Steinem, in her sunglasses, she remembered her expression when she let go about her childhood. She truly came from a different world. Dick signed the ERA after she pressed him. The Abzug types didn't appreciate it, they never did. They didn't know. She couldn't help but think about where these new women were going. Clearly, things would continue to change. Female President? Wonder what Dick would think of that...** She was from a different generation, she guessed-she couldn't get behind all the bra-burning and the calling out of male chauvinism. A reserved dignity was nothing to be ashamed of. But deep down, she knew her gender was stronger. Decades of world experience had proved it. After all, she was able to do what nobody else could-get Dick to reveal what he really thought. Sometimes. She still saw glimpses of him. But they were immediately suffocated when any of the boys came around. He was so removed from it all, the Kissingers and Haldemans made sure of it, reinforcing his latent tendencies rather that doing what she did and forcing him to go out.
Well... maybe that would change after the White House? She hoped, but she didn't dare expect.
She knew better than to moan about her problems. There were parts to her job, parts the media didn't care about, and parts she didn't want them to care about. She remembered those wounded boys in Saigon, who her handlers tried to prevent her from seeing, those children in Peru... ordinary people. She had done her best to try and make sure that for the first time, the White House was open to everybody, not just the rich and famous. The Washington Post had problems with it, calling it safe and dull and so typical of the Nixon's, but that was so insignificant. Nothing made her simultaneously more happy and more sad than to help people with real problems. Problems away from DC, a city so artificial. Not stupid Washington hostesses, not press reporters who wanted a story. Sometimes she wondered if Dick, being a little consigliere or some Benjamin Disraeli in his own mind, forgot about all that. Forgot where he came from. Occasionally he didn't. More often, he did. She had always liked people. She never... understood why he didn't. Deep down, she knew she never would know the drive there, what drove him into this. Though she could definitely point as to why these tendencies were increased, of course.
She thought about who would be the next poor lady to be subjected to the treatment. Rosalyn Carter didn't look happy on the TV recordings from last night. “It's called being handled, honey, get used to it”, she thought. But Carter had stumbled. Something about not being strong enough with a decaying America. She didn't really care anymore. The convention there was going to be interesting. Not the least here, since everybody knew Reagan was going to win. The man really led a movement. Dick had tried, teamed up with of all people, Rockefeller, a man he had despised, to try and prevent that. No go. He had really set the genie out of the bottle in 1968. Her husband was, if nothing else, aware of that. She remembered him quoting some ancient poem on a mortal that struck a Faustian bargain with the gods, as that glimpse of the man she still loved showed up...
“We're here...” George. Good. She didn't know if she could stand Henry or Bob right now. She even heard that CHUCK of all people was going to be here. Oh God...One of the few men she could stand. Nice guy. Her husband had nothing but praise for him. Too bad that nice couldn't win in politics. Her husband believed that back in the 40s, but he fortunately, or unfortunately, wisened up.
Put a smile on, and remember to tell Nancy how sick she would eventually get of these ceremonies, and at the end of it, she could cross off another day in the countdown...
*Pat Nixon was not a fan of many of the people her husband surrounded herself with and thought they were a bad influence on him. Like a lot of other things, she was right. I'd imagine that by summer of 1976, she'd be at the end of her rope.
She was a seriously interesting first lady-the first one to be in a combat zone, actually. The story about her seeing the boys against the will of her handlers is true. The big difference between Pat and her husband was this-Pat was authentically a good human being who loved people. Dick wasn't. He was FASCINATED by humans, like a Martian scientist would be, and would study them. But not like them. He loved politics, and Pat hated it, and that's related in my view.
In spite of all that though, their relationship was up and down, but after Watergate, after they got back to California, stronger than ever. Nixon could come back from anything except her death-I think that's what partially killed him. He was beyond emotional at the funeral.
In my view, it's kind of obvious that Rocky's time had past and that Reagan was going to win, so there won't be much convention controversy. Richard Schweiker is VP to appease Nixon. He is the weaker position due to his lame-duckness and alienation from much of the party.
**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UBQgDDuWc
I could definitely see Pat pushing a wavering husband on the ERA.
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Love the TL
I grew up raised by hippies who HATED Nixon.
However, with a bit more perspective, I found I liked Nixon's pragmatism and vision.
Looked at one way, the whole 1970 invasion of Cambodia and Laos RMN ordered showed the US military the folly of thinking it could "win" Vietnam sitting on the HCM Trail. Also, it showed how unready the ARVN were to be cut loose from US support. Project Phoenix showed how counterinsurgency could work.
Trouble was, the main threat from 1972 on was conventional invasion by the NVA, not the VC. If you could switch Westy and Abrams as COMACV, Nam would have been massively different.
However, the secrecy and distrust of everyone else made things worse with Congress, so IOTL by 1974, the baby went out with the bathwater.
I like that you're not sugar-coating his faults or wanking his better features way beyond plausibility. FWIW, Nixon wanted the greater good but he didn't trust anyone enough to really explain why or how that made things better.
I grew up raised by hippies who HATED Nixon.
However, with a bit more perspective, I found I liked Nixon's pragmatism and vision.
Looked at one way, the whole 1970 invasion of Cambodia and Laos RMN ordered showed the US military the folly of thinking it could "win" Vietnam sitting on the HCM Trail. Also, it showed how unready the ARVN were to be cut loose from US support. Project Phoenix showed how counterinsurgency could work.
Trouble was, the main threat from 1972 on was conventional invasion by the NVA, not the VC. If you could switch Westy and Abrams as COMACV, Nam would have been massively different.
However, the secrecy and distrust of everyone else made things worse with Congress, so IOTL by 1974, the baby went out with the bathwater.
I like that you're not sugar-coating his faults or wanking his better features way beyond plausibility. FWIW, Nixon wanted the greater good but he didn't trust anyone enough to really explain why or how that made things better.
Realpolitik
Banned
The idea wasn't to "win" so much as it was to stop the bleeding of American soldiers by enabling them to be transferred to the coasts from the highlands, to buy time for ARVN and to delay the inevitable North Vietnamese invasion,which would come in 1972. I think Nixon could have done a MUCH better job of making that clearer, or he should have kept it secret rather than doing some Patton-esque announcement in 1970 so he could destroy what he could and get out without protests-probably the better move given how toxic the situation was at home by 1970. As I mentioned before, with that and Operation Linebacker II, it sort of reminds me of how Batman would beat up the Joker more than necessary to put him in Arkham for a while before he inevitably broke out. I think Nixon was smart enough to know that the North Vietnamese weren't giving up.
Very much so. That's why Linebacker I and the ARVN were somewhat effective. The nature of the war had changed. But the PAVN was as hardcore as ever.
Nixon arguably had the worst relationship with Congress in history, as I've mentioned before. Nixon's contempt for Congress is palpable (and IMHO, not *completely* unjustified, which is why I'm trying to be scrupulous in reminding myself and others how toxic Nixon was) in his memoirs. But LBJ was correct-for them to respect you, you need to respect them. Catch flies with honey, not vinegar. Nixon never could swallow his pride and do that.
Only a few other Prezzies like Andrew Johnson, Wilson and Obama are near his levels, I think. There was going to be a bloodbath in the second term, and Nixon's plan to reorganize the government was the last straw. ATL, Nixon wins this for a while with his successes in health care and energy policy(don't forget the difference in approval rating between Nixon and Congress was more than 45 percent in Nixon's favor before Watergate blew), but that changes. I don't think even post 1972 landslide, Watergate-less Nixon could ultimately overrule Congress in the long term, and that leads to problems by 1976.
Thanks. Nixon's a complex man with a complex personality, and it's really tricky to get him right and not into just a caricature. You've got a hardcore band of haters out there who are incapable of granting that he might have ever had good intentions or good instincts, and a smaller band of apologists that are determined to show him as a misunderstood crusader. Neither view is correct. Steven Ambrose himself, who made *the* authoritative series on Nixon, said even he didn't understand him at the end. One reason I liked Mallon's "Watergate" was because it humanized Nixon just enough to show that he truly wanted what was best and wasn't some demon from hell, but also makes clear his personality faults that made that impossible. Reeves is also good on this. Nixon was at his best alone, connecting the dots of policy, and writing his notes down on yellow paper. But for a President, that's just tough to make work, especially if you surround yourself by rather amoral people as gatekeepers, and if you already are expanding the ranks of your "true" enemies (and make no mistake, he had them, more of them than most Presidents. The idea that he didn't is crap) by alienating everyone and swatting at every challenge.
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Realpolitik
Banned
Rose Mary Woods couldn't stand Haldeman either. Kissinger was different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUBRmxjWBPY It's ones like these that show that he *was* a human being.
Mike Wallace always said that the one person he regretted never interviewing was Pat Nixon. She is one of the really underrated First Ladies in my opinion. She suffered a lot-"If that was napalm, you'd be dead"-because of her husband and gallantly went through some really inexcusably nasty stuff, looking back at it. An oft-unreported story, IIRC, is that her office was broken into once during one campaign by the opposition. No wonder she hated politics-her daughters got death threats and couldn't attend their graduations because of the Cambodian Incursion. Criticize the President all you want, don't go after his family. I think Kissinger really summed her up well, ironically.
And UNLIKE her husband, she never lost her humanity in the process.
EDIT:
In other news, yes, it's Reagan. Any comments on that?
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Realpolitik
Banned
Yeah, his movement was very strong, I don't think that anybody would be able to counter it. Now, 1976 is a very interesting election for a lot of reasons. For one thing, you might not want your party to win. For another thing, without Watergate and clean government being the cause celebre(though it's still there), it's going to be more about general alienation and a sense of malaise. He was in a sweet spot-has Nixon's support, but also clearly different from Nixon. Again, he's subtly making Nixoncare* into an issue while still supporting the President in the Kulturkampf on the liberal media.
For yet another thing, can "Reagan be Reagan" in 1977?
Ah, Pat, Pat. Wonder if he'll get the ambassador to South Africa position once the Old Man leaves? I'll say this: he's probably been having the time of his life, and I can't blame him. For all of the paranoia and criminality, Nixon's WH was also like a top research lab for cool policy ideas and hardcore political strategy as well. Before anyone scoffs, seriously, read what the man wrote. You actually see a mind at work, something rare in current Democrats and near non-existent in the current GOP. It was hard for him to get used to the Reagan WH while having intellectual conversations with Nixon in memory, I remember.
Apologies for putting this before the fun and important stuff overseas, but...
EDIT:
I am trying to be realistic, of course. But damn if I won't "have some fun" with the neocons on the way.
As an aside, some aspects of Nixon's health proposals went beyond anything Obama could dream about. Though not nearly as interested domestic policy, health care was an exception underneath all the partisan politics and cunning. I suspect it was because Nixon never forgot what caring for two tuberculosis addled brothers was like-his family couldn't afford a doctor. All his public statements and proposals going back to 1947 make this explicitly clear. It speaks to how sad DC has become that the debate is not between a France/Germany (Nixon/Carter) or UK/Canada (Truman/EMK) like system, but whether to expand the current one.
And unlike Obama, Nixon is more than willing to ruin (or enrich) a career or two on the Hill if he doesn't (or does) get what he wants. And through the wisdom and enigmatic blessings of J. Edgar Hoover, all is possible. (Mystical tone on the last sentence).
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Very good update Realpolitik.
I've been reading some stuff on Truman lately and Bess Truman reminds me a lot of Pat from this update and your previous posts, with their negative opinions on politicians but still supportive of their husbands ambitions nevertheless.
Reagan in '76 will be interesting, especially a '76 where Nixon is a factor in the election. If the Dems nominate someone who Nixon wouldn't have to many problems with, I could see Nixon not exactly enthusiastically campaigning for/endorsing Reagan.
I've been reading some stuff on Truman lately and Bess Truman reminds me a lot of Pat from this update and your previous posts, with their negative opinions on politicians but still supportive of their husbands ambitions nevertheless.
Reagan in '76 will be interesting, especially a '76 where Nixon is a factor in the election. If the Dems nominate someone who Nixon wouldn't have to many problems with, I could see Nixon not exactly enthusiastically campaigning for/endorsing Reagan.
Realpolitik
Banned
You know, one of the best things on Pat Nixon I ever read was Margeret Truman's work on her(and other first ladies, but it was Pat that I read about).
Yes, but remember that Nixon's an effective lame duck and does not control the party like Johnson did. Nixon was, at the heart of it, a loyal party man.
Not to mention that after nearly a third of a century of loathing Nixon, the Democrats, or at least some of them, won't take that into account.