What if Napoleon tried to conquer the Barbary states instead of Egypt?

I'm particularly curious since afaik, the biggest reason why Western mediterranean Europe, conquered west Mediterranean africa in the 19th century (instead of the reverse) was that mediterranean west africa was way more divided, and if anyone can unite a divided people, Napoleon can.
 
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Napoleon's objective was, in theory, to push on to India and make contact with Indian princes fighting the British. Algeria and Tunisia are a dead end from that perspective, except as stepping stones to Egypt (as Malta was). Once you take them, there's no "and then what?" except maybe Gibraltar?
 
Algeria and Tunisia are a dead end from that perspective, except as stepping stones to Egypt (as Malta was). Once you take them, there's no "and then what?" except maybe Gibraltar?
There's also Sicily, which was controlled by the British at the time.
 
There's also Sicily, which was controlled by the British at the time.
That is a valid point--the though the British would not quite take over for a few years yet. A French conquest of North Africa, followed by a stronger implementation of the Parthenopean Republic and a Republic in Sicily (Magnagraecian? Syracusan? to follow the naming scheme), would seem to be a good step toward locking the British out of the Western Mediterranean--a Gibraltar campaign would, in this line of thought, be the end-point of the adventure (and secure Spanish friendship for the Republic).

The idea has potential. To a large extent, though, I think it depends on Napoleon personally developing an interest in the ancient history of Carthage and/or Greek Sicily, and becoming fixated on that idea. Which would have some interesting implications for the Consulate and/or (if not butterflied) First Empire--Punic aesthetics rather than Egyptomania.
 
That is a valid point--the though the British would not quite take over for a few years yet. A French conquest of North Africa, followed by a stronger implementation of the Parthenopean Republic and a Republic in Sicily (Magnagraecian? Syracusan? to follow the naming scheme), would seem to be a good step toward locking the British out of the Western Mediterranean--a Gibraltar campaign would, in this line of thought, be the end-point of the adventure (and secure Spanish friendship for the Republic).

The idea has potential. To a large extent, though, I think it depends on Napoleon personally developing an interest in the ancient history of Carthage and/or Greek Sicily, and becoming fixated on that idea. Which would have some interesting implications for the Consulate and/or (if not butterflied) First Empire--Punic aesthetics rather than Egyptomania.
Is napeoleon still eventually defeated in TTL? If he is, do Spain, france & Italy still end up conquering this more united north africa?
 
Is napeoleon still eventually defeated in TTL? If he is, do Spain, france & Italy still end up conquering this more united north africa?
With a POD this early in his career, it's hard to say. The French historian Bainville characterizes the whole Napoleonic War as over Belgium, and so long as the Republic was unwilling to yield it, Britain would keep organizing coalitions against it. If you subscribe to that interpretation, Napoleon (or someone else) will fall eventually, simply because France can't keep up against the whole of Europe financed by Britain. Interestingly, Bainville also (and not only him--Zamoyski and other historians who wrote about Napoleon reach similar conclusions) characterize the Egyptian campaign as a personally quite traumatic experience for Bonaparte, that the failure of implementing Enlightenment ideals in Egypt convinced him of the necessity for dictatorship in a way he hadn't previously been convinced. Conceivably, he might be disinclined to become a Monarch ITTL (and thus no attempt at alliances with the Tsar or Austria--no Maria Louisa, no King of Rome)--or the Berbers will sodomize his soldiers just as the Mamelukes did and he reaches the same conclusions. And of course you have other questions, like "does this also help neutralize Talleyrand's career?"

Assuming the war follows the broad outlines of OTL, though (with Gibraltar instead of Acre at the end, and Napoleon dashing back to France), Algeria will come under British occupation just as Egypt was IOTL--but with no Muhammad Ali Pasha to take over as IOTL. Conceivably, it might revert to French control at the *Congress of Vienna, since Spain isn't really in a position to take advantage of it and Italy is, at the time, relatively ass-backwards and half under Austrian occupation.
 
The idea has potential. To a large extent, though, I think it depends on Napoleon personally developing an interest in the ancient history of Carthage and/or Greek Sicily, and becoming fixated on that idea.
Napoleon becomes interested in alternate history, and writes his first timeline on "what if Hannibal defeated Rome"?
 
Napoleon becomes interested in alternate history, and writes his first timeline on "what if Hannibal defeated Rome"?
Given his interests at the time, he'd probably find some way to turn that into a Corsica-wank.

"Islands are naturally-suited as the centers of trade empires, so the victorious Hannibal would relocate the capitol of his country to Ajaccio..."
 
Do you mean literally?
Yes, that was a common thing the Arabs did with French soldiers they captured. Between that and torture of the prisoners and other culture shocks, Napoleon seemed to find Egypt rather disturbing compared to France and Italy.
Britain has the naval presence to enforce a presence in Algeria and will likely land there as an appendix to its support for Spain and Portugal during the Peninsular War (if that still happens).
 
What if Napoleon tried to conquer the Barbary states instead of Egypt?
I think, in that case, Napoleon could have have more lasting advantages by either conquering, or allying with, the Barbary states rather than invading Egypt. This assumption is based on Napoleon’s history and also on earlier, pre-Napoleonic French history.

According to Wikipedia, the Barbary coast had been an important source of wheat for Napoleon’s army in Italy during 1796.
Wikipedia said:
In the 1790s, France had contracted to purchase wheat for the French army from two merchants in Algiers, Messrs. Bacri and Boushnak, and was in arrears paying them...

…During the Directory regime of the First French Republic (1795–99), the Bacri and the Busnach, Jewish merchants of Algiers, provided large quantities of grain for Napoleon's soldiers who participated in the Italian campaign of 1796. But Bonaparte refused to pay the bill, claiming it was excessive.
And Napoleon also considered Algeria important enough that he created a contingency plan in 1808 to conquer it, according to a 1969 book, “Modern History of the Arab Countries” by Vladmir Borisovitch Lutsky.
Lutsky said:
Napoleon I had once regarded Algeria as an indispensable foreign market for the industrial development of France. In his talks with Alexander I in Tilzit (1807) and Erfurt (1808), whenever the question of the partition of the Ottoman Empire arose, Napoleon I never failed to include Algeria in his future domains. To prepare for the conquest of the country in 1808, he sent the military engineer, Major Buten, to Algeria and Tunisia to make a topographical survey and work out a plan for the expedition. Although the defeats in Spain and Russia prevented Napoleon I from putting his plans into practice, Buten’s material was to come in handy during the preparations for the expedition of 1830.
A little before the 1805 Battle of Trafalgar, Napoleon had scored a victory over the Barbary state of Algiers by sending his brother Jérôme’s naval squadron to cow the Dey of Algiers into releasing European slaves. Glenn J. Lamar describes this event in his book, “Jérôme Bonaparte: The War Years, 1800 – 1815, pages 22 - 23:
Lamar said:
“The Emperor wanted to ingratiate himself with the people of the Ligurian Republic [Genoa, Italy] so he decided to send Jérôme’s squadron to pressure the Barbary Pirates in Algiers to release their Christian, mostly Italian, slaves…. [Jérôme] reached Algiers on 18 August. Jérôme sent the Dey of Algiers a note, explaining his mission. The Dey declared…he would surrender thirty captives. Jérôme responded that thirty was not enough and that he meant to have all the French, Italians, and Ligurians; if his demand was not met in forty-eight hours, he would respond with force.

The next morning the Dey sent 231 slaves to the French ships. Jérôme returned to Genoa on the morning of 31 August and was greeted by most of the city’s officials who organized a huge celebration to honor the return of the captives.”
Once Napoleon had demonstrated who was the “Top Dog” over the Barbary states, he could perhapshave the option to ally with them, instead of a conquest. The Barbary fleets could have been added to Napoleon’s naval power and have been turned loose on British merchant ships while being given bases and shelter in all of French-occupied Europe.

France had done something similar to this before with the Barbary pirates. The Barbary pirates had been very successful in those earlier centuries. Why not again ?
Wikipedia said:
Barbary corsairs captured thousands of merchant ships and repeatedly raided coastal towns… In addition to seizing merchant ships, they engaged in razzias, raids on European coastal towns and villages, mainly in Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal, but also in the British Isles, the Netherlands, and Iceland….
By again making the Barbary pirates into French corsairs, Napoleon could unleash an additional weapon again the British.
Wikipedia said:
Corsairs (French: corsaire) were privateers, authorised to conduct raids on shipping of a foreign state at war with France, on behalf of the French crown. Seized vessels and cargo were sold at auction, with the corsair captain entitled to a portion of the proceeds.…..The activities of the corsairs were so profitable that the Minister of the Navy used this in his strategy to make money. Moreover, the King used to take one-quarter or even one-third of the booty. The corsairs' activities weakened France's enemies; indeed, English trade losses were very important from 1688 to 1717.
So I believe that the Barbary states could have provided Napoleon with their near-by-to France wheat for his armies as well as naval reinforcements for his fleet against British merchant shipping. (The British men-of-war could not have protected all the merchant ships.).

On the other hand, Napoleon was never able to make any effective use of far away Egypt. But, if he first had the Barbary states on his side, he would be in a better position to acquire Egypt later, perhaps as part of a deal between France and Russia to divide up the Ottoman Empire. Then it could be on to India….
 
I think, in that case, Napoleon could have have more lasting advantages by either conquering, or allying with, the Barbary states rather than invading Egypt. This assumption is based on Napoleon’s history and also on earlier, pre-Napoleonic French history.

According to Wikipedia, the Barbary coast had been an important source of wheat for Napoleon’s army in Italy during 1796.

And Napoleon also considered Algeria important enough that he created a contingency plan in 1808 to conquer it, according to a 1969 book, “Modern History of the Arab Countries” by Vladmir Borisovitch Lutsky.

A little before the 1805 Battle of Trafalgar, Napoleon had scored a victory over the Barbary state of Algiers by sending his brother Jérôme’s naval squadron to cow the Dey of Algiers into releasing European slaves. Glenn J. Lamar describes this event in his book, “Jérôme Bonaparte: The War Years, 1800 – 1815, pages 22 - 23:

Once Napoleon had demonstrated who was the “Top Dog” over the Barbary states, he could perhapshave the option to ally with them, instead of a conquest. The Barbary fleets could have been added to Napoleon’s naval power and have been turned loose on British merchant ships while being given bases and shelter in all of French-occupied Europe.

France had done something similar to this before with the Barbary pirates. The Barbary pirates had been very successful in those earlier centuries. Why not again ?

By again making the Barbary pirates into French corsairs, Napoleon could unleash an additional weapon again the British.

So I believe that the Barbary states could have provided Napoleon with their near-by-to France wheat for his armies as well as naval reinforcements for his fleet against British merchant shipping. (The British men-of-war could not have protected all the merchant ships.).

On the other hand, Napoleon was never able to make any effective use of far away Egypt. But, if he first had the Barbary states on his side, he would be in a better position to acquire Egypt later, perhaps as part of a deal between France and Russia to divide up the Ottoman Empire. Then it could be on to India….
If Napoleon is still defeated, would the Berbers or Arabs of the Barbary coast (like the Germans & Italians) realize they have far more in common with each other than their french over lords, then unite into some larger berber or Maghrebi-Arab ethno-state?
 
I think, in that case, Napoleon could have have more lasting advantages by either conquering, or allying with, the Barbary states rather than invading Egypt. This assumption is based on Napoleon’s history and also on earlier, pre-Napoleonic French history.

According to Wikipedia, the Barbary coast had been an important source of wheat for Napoleon’s army in Italy during 1796.

And Napoleon also considered Algeria important enough that he created a contingency plan in 1808 to conquer it, according to a 1969 book, “Modern History of the Arab Countries” by Vladmir Borisovitch Lutsky.

A little before the 1805 Battle of Trafalgar, Napoleon had scored a victory over the Barbary state of Algiers by sending his brother Jérôme’s naval squadron to cow the Dey of Algiers into releasing European slaves. Glenn J. Lamar describes this event in his book, “Jérôme Bonaparte: The War Years, 1800 – 1815, pages 22 - 23:

Once Napoleon had demonstrated who was the “Top Dog” over the Barbary states, he could perhapshave the option to ally with them, instead of a conquest. The Barbary fleets could have been added to Napoleon’s naval power and have been turned loose on British merchant ships while being given bases and shelter in all of French-occupied Europe.

France had done something similar to this before with the Barbary pirates. The Barbary pirates had been very successful in those earlier centuries. Why not again ?

By again making the Barbary pirates into French corsairs, Napoleon could unleash an additional weapon again the British.

So I believe that the Barbary states could have provided Napoleon with their near-by-to France wheat for his armies as well as naval reinforcements for his fleet against British merchant shipping. (The British men-of-war could not have protected all the merchant ships.).

On the other hand, Napoleon was never able to make any effective use of far away Egypt. But, if he first had the Barbary states on his side, he would be in a better position to acquire Egypt later, perhaps as part of a deal between France and Russia to divide up the Ottoman Empire. Then it could be on to India….
If the French are both not invading eygipt and as you prepose not invading but instead allying with the Barbery stats, while not guaranteed this opens up the possibility reaffirming the Franco ottoman alliance and haveing them join the war on the side of France in a official capacity (instead of the unofficial capacity later with thier wars with the British and the russians) since the french allying with the barbery states removes the last possible flash point with france no longer invading ottoman allies tributarys or allies in this timeline. since the ottomans already where fighting with the British and Russians otl this would not change to much but saves the army's that would otl be lost by France and the Ottomans in thier wars agenst each other from napolions otl eygiptian expedition. The ottomans while displaying a shakey preformance standing alone agenst the Russians they also showed they were able to hold thier own vs the British by blunting a attempted British invasion of eygipt and technically win thier war reaferming ottoman rights in the east. Since the ottomans had otl shown thier capacity to hold thier own agenst the British thier entry should not be a spain situation where there is a concern of britan using its navy to pick off ottoman assets and as a result you could then further add the ottomans naval power to the collective french Mediterranean alliance structure and alongside the barbery states naval power as you are suggesting.
 
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