What if in the 1936 plan Nazi Germany decided to make a greater effort in the use of converting coal to fuel? Instead of the 21 plants eventually constructed 100 plants were constructed in Greater Germany vastly increasing Germany's supply of fuel.
What if Germany made greater use of the Coal to fuel process?
- Thread starter Musketeer513
- Start date
nbcman
Donor
What is Germany not producing to build these additional almost 80 plants at a cost of about 75 Million USD per plant? The additional 6 Billion USD is THREE times the cost of the Manhattan Project. Plus the oil that is produced synthetically cost about 15-20 times more than conventionally produced oil plus it resulted in gasoline that was typically no greater than 80 Octane as opposed to the 100 Octane fuel that the Allies used. The SynOilNazis may be up to their swastikas in oil but they have no money for tanks, planes, trucks or ships.
Reference: www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=AD1020261
Reference: www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=AD1020261
thaddeus
Donor
there was mandate to use producer gas vehicles (the water heater sized tanks towed or carried that could use literally any type of fuel, wood chips, peat moss, and coal) but it did not happen until 1942, saving 5 million barrels the first year and over 8 million barrels in 1943.
what if that mandate had been issued in 1938 or 1939? that equals immediate savings without long construction time of synthetic plants and not subject to future Allied bombing.
what if that mandate had been issued in 1938 or 1939? that equals immediate savings without long construction time of synthetic plants and not subject to future Allied bombing.
thaddeus
Donor
there must be a pony! (in there somewhere)
there was probably some good compromise between West Wall fortifications, synthetic plants, and naval construction than was struck historically.
simplest would be just accept a coal-powered coastal fleet instead of Plan Z naval dream and rail guns instead of West Wall.
have no idea what portion of fuel plants could be buried? or alternately they might have been broken into smaller plants (not 100) to extent practicable.
there was probably some good compromise between West Wall fortifications, synthetic plants, and naval construction than was struck historically.
simplest would be just accept a coal-powered coastal fleet instead of Plan Z naval dream and rail guns instead of West Wall.
have no idea what portion of fuel plants could be buried? or alternately they might have been broken into smaller plants (not 100) to extent practicable.
Why didn't they West during the OPEC oil crisis go to the same technology they could probably do it cleaner and we get more coal and we can last for a long time.
And yet, they did.
Anyhoo, IIRC the best use Germany could make of it was using the dcl process, as that worked better for the coal actually found in Germany.
And as always, where does the massive amount of money come from? If Germany can’t afford an army to use that oil then there was no point.
Md139115
Banned
Assuming that Germany found a way to save all that oil, where do they store it?
Let me rephrase that: where do they store it such that Allied bombers don’t blow it to kingdom come?
That’s not really an issue until they’ve already lost and just haven’t been beaten yet.
thaddeus
Donor
using producer gas vehicles saves on the demand side, the vehicles are running on coal, wood chips, peat moss which are not in tanks and not a target.
first of course Germany would not have to convert as much coal, they could (if they so choose) to fuel their own and Italian ships.
it probably would be a good idea to start the war with their planned amounts of oil stockpiled but it would be widely distributed (salt mines work) and would be prior to the Allied bombing campaign.
Wimble Toot
Banned
It takes seven tons of coal to make one ton of fuel, so I'm guessing the Third Reich is going to strip mine itself out of existence.
Also coal miners need more food than any other industrial workers, so food shortages as well.
Also coal miners need more food than any other industrial workers, so food shortages as well.
Assuming for now that the investment needed to scale up coal to liquids earlier, faster and further than OTL doesn't bring the German economy to a creaming halt, how exactly does the extra oil drastically alter the calculus of 1939-1941? It wasn't like the Germans were critically short of more conventional fuel for most of that period.
It could possibly help the Italian navy be a bit more active in the Med but it does zilch, zip and zero for logistics in North Africa (still limited dock capacity and a long overland drive to get supplies to the front).
Doesn't help much out east either... Again logistics and winter were what stopped Barbarossa, not lack of fuel.
I simply don't see how it allows the Germans to win prior to late 1941 when the Japanese drag the Yanks in...
Trouble is accepting the original post requires a completely different rearmament phase and ergo no Hitler. However the only way to compare is to use the historical time line as a reference point and then at best a guesstimate from that POV...This is impossible with out knowing what would have to change in-order to achieve the OP ATL. Do we even know what the German prewar strategy for war - with no Hitler?
From the above posts its obvious no one does.