US capital after CSA victory

Iserlohn

Okay guys, so I've been thinking (dangerous, I know) and I wanted to discuss a problem with you that I think a lot of CSA victory scenarios fail to bring up (at least in a satisfying way): the uselessness of Washington, D.C. as the US capital after the war.

Now let's assume that the CSA wins the war (the details are unimportant for this, I think) and gets to keep all 11 states that seceded but with some reservations since 1) the borders would look weird and 2) Richmond probably can't win the war without making some concessions to the US (besides West Virginia). Most importantly I think that some of the northern counties of Virginia would also be given to the Union to secure DC. But there's a big problem, of course, namely the fact that Washington is still very close to the CSA and due to relations probably being far from rosy, the city would be easily reachable in case of a Confederate surprise invasion.

So... A new capital would be needed. After doing some research a few candidates for which I've heard serious suggestions but I just want to know how likely you think these are, which one would be the best and if there are any other ones I've missed.

a) New York City, New York
b) Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
c) Chicago, Illinois (or something VERY nearby)
d) Metropolis, Illinois (s. the 1850 proposal)
e) Toledo, Ohio
f) St. Louis, Missouri

So what do you guys think?
 
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jczak97

Why not Boston? Ok, all jokes aside, most likely Philadelphia or New York with Chicago being a long shot
 

Superman

St. Louis and Metropolis are probably home or very close to significant amounts of Confederate sympathizers (in Missouri and Kentucky, respectively), so that seems dangerous. Philadelphia is also pretty close to the Confederate border. New York is pretty obvious, but Chicago is fairly central, and is less likely to be destroyed in a flood or get overshadowed by nearby cities. think Chicago would be a pretty good location for a new capital.
 

Caesar Biden

Banned
On the contrary, it would be important to keep the capitol in DC. Show those Dixie bastards we aren't afraid of them, you know.;)

Seriously, this idea would not be accepted by the public, who most likely are eager to take back the traitorous states.
 
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EarlofChatham

Odd_Numbered_Bonaparte said:
I've always thought that in a CSA victory scenario the capitals would eventually move to Philadelphia and Atlanta respectively.
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This makes sense to me broadly, but there is something to be said for the argument of not moving the capital as a matter of defiance to the CSA. I think it depends on where the frontier is. If the CSA holds the hills where Arlington Cemetery is now located, they can shell Washington DC at will, and the capital will be moved to either New York or Philadelphia.

But if the border is farther south, then Washington may be retained. However, it was a very Southern city ante-bellum, and as a capital would be completely out of step with the rest of the union. And if that border is farther south then Richmond would probably not last as the Confederate capital - I'm not sure about Atlanta - it only really grew as a place after it was rebuilt. It had less than 10,000 inhabitants in 1860.
 

Iserlohn

EarlofChatham said:
This makes sense to me broadly, but there is something to be said for the argument of not moving the capital as a matter of defiance to the CSA. I think it depends on where the frontier is. If the CSA holds the hills where Arlington Cemetery is now located, they can shell Washington DC at will, and the capital will be moved to either New York or Philadelphia.

But if the border is farther south, then Washington may be retained. However, it was a very Southern city ante-bellum, and as a capital would be completely out of step with the rest of the union. And if that border is farther south then Richmond would probably not last as the Confederate capital - I'm not sure about Atlanta - it only really grew as a place after it was rebuilt. It had less than 10,000 inhabitants in 1860.
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What if the area lost by Virginia is basically just the Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, Clarke and Frederick counties (plus the independent cities, of course), maybe also portions from Fauquier, Warren and Shenandoah as well? That would only be a tiny buffer area after all.
 
Umbric Man

Umbric Man

It is worth noting, as EarlofChatham said, that Washington was considered southern. The Civil War was the first real 'influx' of northerners and yet the burg was still considered southern up to the 1950s (!) in sources I've read upon.

I feel Philadelphia is the most likely candidate if the capital's moved even though I prefer New York, personally.
 

David T

It is quite possible that the capital will remain in Washington by default, simply because even if a majority of Congress agrees it ought to be moved, they cannot agree on any single one of the numerous rival cities. (That, plus the defiance factor: some people saying, let's show the Confederacy we're not afraid of them.)
 

jahenders

Banned
It's worth noting that, not only is DC close to the likely border between the US and CSA, but so is Richmond, so they have the same issues.

The capitol location depends on exactly where the border is drawn.
- If a few N. VA counties go to the US, then the capitol stays in DC
- If the US can't hold MD, or all of it, then the capitol has to move

If the US capitol moves:
1) Philadelphia seems most likely (nostalgia)
2) Followed by NY

If, with similar concerns, the CSA capitol moved, then Atlanta might seem most likely, but not so much if it's destroyed as IOTL. Two other possibilities there:
1) Montgomery, AL (The 1st CSA capitol and far from the US)
2) Danville, NC (The last CSA capitol)
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Donor
David T said:
It is quite possible that the capital will remain in Washington by default, simply because even if a majority of Congress agrees it ought to be moved, they cannot agree on any single one of the numerous rival cities. (That, plus the defiance factor: some people saying, let's show the Confederacy we're not afraid of them.)
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I think it would be the official capital, but the ministries and Congress would most likely go to Philadelphia, the division between official and administrative capital that some states have to this day (er countries that is)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Mark E.

No way for Metropolis, Illinois. The accounts of the New Madrid earthquake would scare away any major development of that region.
 
Abhakhazia

Abhakhazia

Banned
Mark E. said:
No way for Metropolis, Illinois. The accounts of the New Madrid earthquake would scare away any major development of that region.
Click to expand...

Not to mention Southern Illinois was full of Confederate sympathizers. Several counties in Southern Illinois actually seceded from the Union in 1861, including neighboring Pope and Williamson Counties.
 

Texas Jack

In Mackinley Cantor's (sp) book, "If The South Won The Civil War," he suggested the Union would move the capital to Columbus, Ohio and rename it Columbia.

He also said the farther west the Union went, the less likely a capital on the east coast would be accepted.
 

Deleted member 9338

In 1860 Philadelphia was also a very southern city. New York or Boston would be better choices.
 
NHBL

NHBL

Ceremonial and practical...

I think <gasp> that Turtledove got one thing right in his South won the Civil War series: DC stays as the official capital, but all real work gets done elsewhere...perhaps inaugurations and a ceremonial opening of Congress, and a few offices. There are small "embassies" there with big "Consulates" in the real capital. Each government office has an office in DC also. If you go that route, Philadelphia isn't a bad choice for the main administration, as it's not too far away...
 
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