This map is beautiful but it feels incomplete on the western border, maybe we have to fill that gap with all the land between our border and the Seine River, right?
The Grand Duchy of the West - A Valois-Burgundian TL
- Thread starter BlueFlowwer
- Start date
Is this before Charles of Lorraine killed the French King or after? Cause if its after I swear Brabant got back Burgundy
I'm not sure what you mean with that. Maybe I'm just stupid.
Damn it. Yes it is. Let me see if I can update it.Is this before Charles of Lorraine killed the French King or after? Cause if its after I swear Brabant got back Burgundy
that is, take those rich territories of champagne and Paris
Lol, shall Brabant invade the region of Champagne? That would be great.
I really don't want to nitpick everything, ;-; but I'm fairly certain calais and Boulogne and Saint pol were Phillips Vassals from the whole Anne of Boulogne and England thingy. Friesland was conquered by Philip in like 1514 roughly? County of Charolais and Macon were also part of Isabella's dowry and I think Philip took it back by getting Charles to kill the king of France. (I'm so sorry Blueflowwer forgive me)
How lovely, I hope that these marriages can secure peace, at least for a time...
It took me four tries to get the size of this picture right and now you tell me that I got it wrong? How dare.
I think I got it right this time.
Boulogne and Saint Pol are mostly independent with the grand duchy being more of a protectorate, so they are kind of vassals. I painted the regions of West Friesland and Groningen with red spray. As for Charolais and Macon, they were part of Isabella's dowry, but Philip ignored them in order to retake the duchy of Burgundy instead. So all the crimson parts are the Grand Duchy of Brabant as of 1520.
Well, France is gonna start to breathe fire in a few years, so who knows. But Jeanne is gonna be of importance for that.
Sorry if it has been asked before and I missed it, but what is the status of the cities that are circled in red, e.g. Neuss, Morat or Conflans?
They were on the map when I found them. I guess they are circled because they show of important cities? Trier and Liége are bishoprics, I think. So it might showcase that? 🧐
Thank you for the maps, this makes it much clearer.
It is a considerable realm.
And not to forget one of the most dense populated, most economicly advanced and industrialised of Europe, North of the Alps.
This realm probably outclass all the rest of independent European, kingdoms, ducalities, counties and city states together. May be not Spain due to thier silvermines in the New World but that ''easy'' money will cause very soon a hyperinflation in this realm.
In short the riches of the Burgundian lands will put the Dukes two steps a head of all other rivals since their coffers will be deeper, not unimportant in an age of increased importance of merchanary armies.
Champagne or Palatinate with Jullich lloks as tempting parts of real estate to give Brugundy more ''flesh'' between the North part and the South part of the Ducy.
It is a considerable realm.
And not to forget one of the most dense populated, most economicly advanced and industrialised of Europe, North of the Alps.
This realm probably outclass all the rest of independent European, kingdoms, ducalities, counties and city states together. May be not Spain due to thier silvermines in the New World but that ''easy'' money will cause very soon a hyperinflation in this realm.
In short the riches of the Burgundian lands will put the Dukes two steps a head of all other rivals since their coffers will be deeper, not unimportant in an age of increased importance of merchanary armies.
Champagne or Palatinate with Jullich lloks as tempting parts of real estate to give Brugundy more ''flesh'' between the North part and the South part of the Ducy.
Good that you liked them, they were a pain in the ass to make.
It really is a grand state isn't it? And we shall see what happens to them later.
They are aiding Denmark at the moment and keeping France at bay at the border. But the ducal debts are all paid since long. And yes, they sure can afford to protect themselves shall the need arise.
I honestly haven't planned for Brabant to invade Champagne. That part had been french since the days of Philip IV. And they already have a connection to Jülich-Berg-Ravensberg as the current Grand Duke Philippe's younger brother married the heiress Maria after the conquest of Cleves and Mark. I don't have any more concrete plans for the duchy to expand at the moment, but I'm open to suggestion.
If faith will these lands might end up in one hand?
Any thoughts of the Ducy of Savoy? Are their any strategic mariage candidates, whith the longterm posibility to expand the Ducy as a true Kingdom of Lotharinga form North Sea to Mediteranian Sea?
U could throw Champagne as a dowry for Jeanne when she marries John. That's what Louis XI offered to Charles the Bold to marry Anne (de Beaujeu yes that one) Although personally I think Charolais and Macon would be much more suitable.
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I haven't gotten any plans for that yes. As for Savoy, they will come back in the next chapter and we see what they have been up to. As for reaching through the north sea to the Mediterranean, I'm not sure that will be feasible with a agressive france coming soon.
Charles IX giving the region of Champagne to Jeanne as a dowry is insane. It's a large region containing Reims and is just near the border of Paris. We're in a post-100 years war and France is still shaky due to the Orléans rebellion that ended with Toulouse being ravaged. The french crown will never give up their territories to someone else after taking them back from the english. And I don't give Louis the Spider any credit in that promise. I highly doubt that promise would have become a reality. And the Brabantians had Burgundy back, so they can live without Charolais and Macon.
But if the king promises to give Champagne to the Flemish as a dowry, that would certainly lead to the Dauphin becoming a lighting rod for the opposition against his father and would snowball nicely into a disaster...
*Goes off to ponder*
Chapter 46 - Portugal in 1523
Chapter 46 – Portugal in 1523
Philippa of Brabant’s first marriage lasted for less than two months. The fleet of Dutch ships left Bruges in February of 1523 with her and a ducal entourage onboard to set their sails towards Lisbon. King Alfonso VI and Grand Duke Philippe had agreed on a marriage between their families and Philippa was to wed the young heir to the Avis House, the frail Infante Alfonso, now fifteen years old. The marriage was to take place as soon as Philippa had landed in Lisbon and many hoped that a marriage would help his constitution or at the very least that he would father an heir before he passed away. The king and Queen were both nearly fifty years old now and Isabella of Aragon had been very tired recently, mostly because her niece, Isabella of Granada had suffered many miscarriages and several babies had been lost in infancy during her tenure as Crown Princess. So many hoped for a heir born to Alfonso as soon as possible to further the linage.
Alfonso and Isabella had been far more fortunate with their own children. Crown Prince Joao had been born in 1491 and he had two younger brothers, Peter, Duke of Coimbra in 1500 and Ferdinand, Duke of Guarda born in 1504 and a sister, Eleanor, Queen of Naples born in 1495. Only little Infanta Isabella had died. Should Alfonso die without a living sibling, then Peter would be the next crown prince, unless Isabella managed to produce a living son. Ferdinand had become engaged to Guiomar Coutinho, a rich heiress to the counties of Marialva and Loulé in Portugal. Peter had so far refused to marry, despite being considered for both Infanta Blanche of Cádiz and Infanta Catalina of Granada, his Spanish cousins by Ferdinand the Elder and the Younger.
Philippa’s ships did not arrive as intended in Lisbon two weeks later, as the stormy Bay of Biscay blew the fleet to Galicia, where they had to seek shelter from the harsh winter winds. It would take another ten days before they were ready to sail towards Lisbon, while Philippa and her entourage received the hospitality of the mayor of Santiago del Compostela in Galicia. Philippa sent a quick messenger riding to King Alfonso letting him know that she had arrived in the Iberian peninsula, but there would still be a way to go before she would arrive in Lisbon. On the 5th of March the ships anchored in the port of Lisbon, having arrived in the evening, and as darkness fell, Philippa stepped foot on land, as hundreds of candles, lamps and torches lit the city and harbour up. The city itself had been scourged clean and decorated in preparation for her arrivals and Alfonso taken full advantage of the richest coming in from the east to make Lisbon one of the grandest cities of Christendom. Philippa had no doubt been raised on the glamorous reception her grandmother had been given in 1468 when she arrived in Burgundy and several members of her entourage remarked upon the rich tapestries hung along the walls of the buildings, the costly fabrics of the merchants and nobility and the expensive gifts she received upon arrival. Engraved objects inlaid with abalone, rubies and sapphires from the orient, figures carved in ivory and other valuable gifts was given to Philippa, and even if she had grown up in one of the richest kingdoms in Europe, she was amazed by their rarities.
One thing from Portugal she would not be impressed by: her groom itself. Philippa would meet Infante Alfonso by the next day and while the ceremonies of the court was remarkable, he was decidedly not. Spindly, blond and short, Alfonso suffered from several health problems and a stutter that distorted his words. That left some problems with communicating as Philippa had not been well versed in Portuguese yet and Alfonso lacked in French, one of the languages spoken in the Brabant court. As a sickly child he had been coddled by his grandmother for most of his life and was not allowed to partake in the more robust activities of young nobles at this time, such as hunting, playing tennis and jousting. Philippa found her future spouse to be a saddening sight, as she would most likely have to play the nursemaid to a ailing child, rather than a active marriage and wrote back to her mother that she would most likely have a livelier life as a bride of Christ then the one that awaited her. In spite of her feelings, Philippa was nothing less than the consummated lady and gracefully bowing to Alfonso, all while proclaiming that this meeting had been the grandest of her life and that she would do all within her power to be worthy of a prince of Portugal. Alfonso for his part seemed delighted by the tall and robust Philippa and seemed to be aware that she had noted his lack of vitality, but still commanded her for her grace and gentleness. Philippa dined in private with King Alfonso and Queen Isabella and later with Joao and Isabella during that day. Privately she noticed that Isabella of Aragon seemed pale and tired and that the grey-haired Alfonso rarely took his eyes of his beloved wife. Joao seemed like a man in the same mould as his brother Peter, tall and strong, with a restless energy, while Isabella appeared to be fatigued as she had suffered yet another stillbirth just over a month ago and that the Crown princess was “tall and thin, despite her many pregnancies”. Both pairs found Philippa as an excellent bride for Portugal and that her learning and quick wit would help her well in the future.
The marriage itself took place the day afterwards, in the heavily packed cathedral in Lisbon where the archbishop Martinho da Costa officiated and proclaimed them as bride and groom. Thus, Philippa of Brabant became Infanta Filipa of the Royal houses of Avis and Valois-Burgundy. The two newly weds would be put to bed later that evening after a long day of masses, festivities and feasts. The frail Alfonso seemed unable to consummate the wedding that night and Philippa spent several hours seated by the window of her the chamber, taking in the dancing in the chilly streets that went on below and the glistering lights of the bobbing torches and lanterns that illuminated the city at night. For the next day, the king had ordered a joust, where the dukes of Coimbra and Guarda participated amongst others, as the King and Queen watched their sons and other nobles go round and round against each other. The winner of the joust was the Duke of Coimbra and Philippa had been given the honour of giving him the price for the victory.
Philippa settled in for the next few weeks of her marriage in Lisbon, as she met with courtiers, got introduced to important bishops and aided the two Isabellas in their frequent charitable giving in and around Lisbon, touring the many monasteries and churches in the region. Her relationship with Alfonso was a less successful one, as they had few things in common; music and reading was the sole interest they shared. Philippa herself had no patience for being still and quiet, she loved hunting, riding and dancing, all things Alfonso had no interests in. Their marital endeavours were not going to well either, as his health problems continued to get in the way.
It would be on the 23rd of April, during morning mass that Alfonso finally collapsed as the chaplain was speaking. Philippa’s shout brought everyone to their feet and Prince Joao quickly ran to his son’s side, calling for his servants to send for the doctors immediately. Philippa was left to fend for herself as the Prince and Princess disappeared with her husband, while half the room had been emptied and the other half gathered near her to harangue her with questions about what had happened with Alfonso. It would be Peter who ordered the lords and ladies to scatter and escorted her out for fresh air after a while, so that the overwhelmed Infanta could recover. The next days was spent in constant anxiety for the whole court, as they waited if Alfonso would recover and Philippa was running on little sleep, as she looked after Queen Isabella, whom had collapsed due to the shock and little Infanta Maria, bewildered as to what had happened with her brother. It was not until three days later that Philippa was summoned to her husband’s bedside and at that point there was nothing to do but to say farewell to him. Alfonso died on the 26th in the afternoon, surrounded by family and his fateful dog that refused to leave his side.
The weeks after passed as a blur for Philippa, she had been sent into seclusion to see if she was carrying an heir to Portugal and to gather the royal council to discuss the matters regarding the succession. As of right now, the next in line after Prince Joao would technically be his daughter, Maria, now seven years old. But as the infanta was as frail as her brother, many feared that she would not live long enough to become queen and if she married, Portugal might face a succession crisis as the other claimant was the Duke of Coimbra. As an adult man of twenty-three, he was a much better option for becoming the next heir according to many. Princess Isabella refused to hear that argument, causing discord in the royal family. And then the question as what to do with Philippa herself. Peter was still unmarried and one suggestion was that he take Maria to become his wife to unite the claims, while some proposed that Peter wed the widowed Philippa instead of sending her and the dowry back to Brabant. As the weeks passed, it became clear that no child would come from the marriage and Philippa returned to court, much marked by a sober blackness. Philippa took matters into her own hand and swore before the council that she and Alfonso had not consummated the marriage; thus, she remained a virgin. If Philippa was lying or not about the state of her virginity is unknown, but she had already become fond of Peter and most likely viewed him as a better option for a husband than to be sent home and married off to someone else.
Princess Isabella’s last pregnancy had been before Alfonso’s marriage and as hard as she tried for a long while, she never conceived again. Isabella was devastated by it, while Joao was had mixed feelings. While the throne might pass to his brother instead, seeing his wife suffer through yet another stillbirth would break his heart and thus he declared that his heir would be Peter as long as he married Maria. Philippa showed anger at that proclamation, as she felt herself become completely useless in Portugal and retreated to a manor home the king had graciously given her during her stay. Plans were made for her to return to the Low Countries later, but fate interceded once more. Infanta Maria took ill in the late summer, as plague swept into Portugal and both King Alfonso and Maria became the victims of it. Maria died on the 8th of August and Alfonso on the 22nd, much to the kingdom’s grief. Princess Isabella also became ill, but she recovered for the most part. The successive death of her grandchildren and beloved husband became too much for the Queen to bear and Isabella of Aragon passed away in grief on in the first days of September, leaving the court draped in black for over a year.
Joao, now king of Portugal saw the writing on the wall and designated the duke of Coimbra as his heir. In December of 1523 Philippa of Brabant saw her second wedding of that year, as bride to the now crown prince Peter of Portugal and that marriage would last far longer than her first one had done, much to her and Peter’s joy, even amidst the sorrows that had racked the court for several months.
King Joao III of Portugal in 1524
Author's Note: A year's adventure in Portugal and poor Philippa did not have the easiest of first marriages. And a farewell to Alfonso and Isabella of Aragon, united in death together.
Philippa of Brabant’s first marriage lasted for less than two months. The fleet of Dutch ships left Bruges in February of 1523 with her and a ducal entourage onboard to set their sails towards Lisbon. King Alfonso VI and Grand Duke Philippe had agreed on a marriage between their families and Philippa was to wed the young heir to the Avis House, the frail Infante Alfonso, now fifteen years old. The marriage was to take place as soon as Philippa had landed in Lisbon and many hoped that a marriage would help his constitution or at the very least that he would father an heir before he passed away. The king and Queen were both nearly fifty years old now and Isabella of Aragon had been very tired recently, mostly because her niece, Isabella of Granada had suffered many miscarriages and several babies had been lost in infancy during her tenure as Crown Princess. So many hoped for a heir born to Alfonso as soon as possible to further the linage.
Alfonso and Isabella had been far more fortunate with their own children. Crown Prince Joao had been born in 1491 and he had two younger brothers, Peter, Duke of Coimbra in 1500 and Ferdinand, Duke of Guarda born in 1504 and a sister, Eleanor, Queen of Naples born in 1495. Only little Infanta Isabella had died. Should Alfonso die without a living sibling, then Peter would be the next crown prince, unless Isabella managed to produce a living son. Ferdinand had become engaged to Guiomar Coutinho, a rich heiress to the counties of Marialva and Loulé in Portugal. Peter had so far refused to marry, despite being considered for both Infanta Blanche of Cádiz and Infanta Catalina of Granada, his Spanish cousins by Ferdinand the Elder and the Younger.
Philippa’s ships did not arrive as intended in Lisbon two weeks later, as the stormy Bay of Biscay blew the fleet to Galicia, where they had to seek shelter from the harsh winter winds. It would take another ten days before they were ready to sail towards Lisbon, while Philippa and her entourage received the hospitality of the mayor of Santiago del Compostela in Galicia. Philippa sent a quick messenger riding to King Alfonso letting him know that she had arrived in the Iberian peninsula, but there would still be a way to go before she would arrive in Lisbon. On the 5th of March the ships anchored in the port of Lisbon, having arrived in the evening, and as darkness fell, Philippa stepped foot on land, as hundreds of candles, lamps and torches lit the city and harbour up. The city itself had been scourged clean and decorated in preparation for her arrivals and Alfonso taken full advantage of the richest coming in from the east to make Lisbon one of the grandest cities of Christendom. Philippa had no doubt been raised on the glamorous reception her grandmother had been given in 1468 when she arrived in Burgundy and several members of her entourage remarked upon the rich tapestries hung along the walls of the buildings, the costly fabrics of the merchants and nobility and the expensive gifts she received upon arrival. Engraved objects inlaid with abalone, rubies and sapphires from the orient, figures carved in ivory and other valuable gifts was given to Philippa, and even if she had grown up in one of the richest kingdoms in Europe, she was amazed by their rarities.
One thing from Portugal she would not be impressed by: her groom itself. Philippa would meet Infante Alfonso by the next day and while the ceremonies of the court was remarkable, he was decidedly not. Spindly, blond and short, Alfonso suffered from several health problems and a stutter that distorted his words. That left some problems with communicating as Philippa had not been well versed in Portuguese yet and Alfonso lacked in French, one of the languages spoken in the Brabant court. As a sickly child he had been coddled by his grandmother for most of his life and was not allowed to partake in the more robust activities of young nobles at this time, such as hunting, playing tennis and jousting. Philippa found her future spouse to be a saddening sight, as she would most likely have to play the nursemaid to a ailing child, rather than a active marriage and wrote back to her mother that she would most likely have a livelier life as a bride of Christ then the one that awaited her. In spite of her feelings, Philippa was nothing less than the consummated lady and gracefully bowing to Alfonso, all while proclaiming that this meeting had been the grandest of her life and that she would do all within her power to be worthy of a prince of Portugal. Alfonso for his part seemed delighted by the tall and robust Philippa and seemed to be aware that she had noted his lack of vitality, but still commanded her for her grace and gentleness. Philippa dined in private with King Alfonso and Queen Isabella and later with Joao and Isabella during that day. Privately she noticed that Isabella of Aragon seemed pale and tired and that the grey-haired Alfonso rarely took his eyes of his beloved wife. Joao seemed like a man in the same mould as his brother Peter, tall and strong, with a restless energy, while Isabella appeared to be fatigued as she had suffered yet another stillbirth just over a month ago and that the Crown princess was “tall and thin, despite her many pregnancies”. Both pairs found Philippa as an excellent bride for Portugal and that her learning and quick wit would help her well in the future.
The marriage itself took place the day afterwards, in the heavily packed cathedral in Lisbon where the archbishop Martinho da Costa officiated and proclaimed them as bride and groom. Thus, Philippa of Brabant became Infanta Filipa of the Royal houses of Avis and Valois-Burgundy. The two newly weds would be put to bed later that evening after a long day of masses, festivities and feasts. The frail Alfonso seemed unable to consummate the wedding that night and Philippa spent several hours seated by the window of her the chamber, taking in the dancing in the chilly streets that went on below and the glistering lights of the bobbing torches and lanterns that illuminated the city at night. For the next day, the king had ordered a joust, where the dukes of Coimbra and Guarda participated amongst others, as the King and Queen watched their sons and other nobles go round and round against each other. The winner of the joust was the Duke of Coimbra and Philippa had been given the honour of giving him the price for the victory.
Philippa settled in for the next few weeks of her marriage in Lisbon, as she met with courtiers, got introduced to important bishops and aided the two Isabellas in their frequent charitable giving in and around Lisbon, touring the many monasteries and churches in the region. Her relationship with Alfonso was a less successful one, as they had few things in common; music and reading was the sole interest they shared. Philippa herself had no patience for being still and quiet, she loved hunting, riding and dancing, all things Alfonso had no interests in. Their marital endeavours were not going to well either, as his health problems continued to get in the way.
It would be on the 23rd of April, during morning mass that Alfonso finally collapsed as the chaplain was speaking. Philippa’s shout brought everyone to their feet and Prince Joao quickly ran to his son’s side, calling for his servants to send for the doctors immediately. Philippa was left to fend for herself as the Prince and Princess disappeared with her husband, while half the room had been emptied and the other half gathered near her to harangue her with questions about what had happened with Alfonso. It would be Peter who ordered the lords and ladies to scatter and escorted her out for fresh air after a while, so that the overwhelmed Infanta could recover. The next days was spent in constant anxiety for the whole court, as they waited if Alfonso would recover and Philippa was running on little sleep, as she looked after Queen Isabella, whom had collapsed due to the shock and little Infanta Maria, bewildered as to what had happened with her brother. It was not until three days later that Philippa was summoned to her husband’s bedside and at that point there was nothing to do but to say farewell to him. Alfonso died on the 26th in the afternoon, surrounded by family and his fateful dog that refused to leave his side.
The weeks after passed as a blur for Philippa, she had been sent into seclusion to see if she was carrying an heir to Portugal and to gather the royal council to discuss the matters regarding the succession. As of right now, the next in line after Prince Joao would technically be his daughter, Maria, now seven years old. But as the infanta was as frail as her brother, many feared that she would not live long enough to become queen and if she married, Portugal might face a succession crisis as the other claimant was the Duke of Coimbra. As an adult man of twenty-three, he was a much better option for becoming the next heir according to many. Princess Isabella refused to hear that argument, causing discord in the royal family. And then the question as what to do with Philippa herself. Peter was still unmarried and one suggestion was that he take Maria to become his wife to unite the claims, while some proposed that Peter wed the widowed Philippa instead of sending her and the dowry back to Brabant. As the weeks passed, it became clear that no child would come from the marriage and Philippa returned to court, much marked by a sober blackness. Philippa took matters into her own hand and swore before the council that she and Alfonso had not consummated the marriage; thus, she remained a virgin. If Philippa was lying or not about the state of her virginity is unknown, but she had already become fond of Peter and most likely viewed him as a better option for a husband than to be sent home and married off to someone else.
Princess Isabella’s last pregnancy had been before Alfonso’s marriage and as hard as she tried for a long while, she never conceived again. Isabella was devastated by it, while Joao was had mixed feelings. While the throne might pass to his brother instead, seeing his wife suffer through yet another stillbirth would break his heart and thus he declared that his heir would be Peter as long as he married Maria. Philippa showed anger at that proclamation, as she felt herself become completely useless in Portugal and retreated to a manor home the king had graciously given her during her stay. Plans were made for her to return to the Low Countries later, but fate interceded once more. Infanta Maria took ill in the late summer, as plague swept into Portugal and both King Alfonso and Maria became the victims of it. Maria died on the 8th of August and Alfonso on the 22nd, much to the kingdom’s grief. Princess Isabella also became ill, but she recovered for the most part. The successive death of her grandchildren and beloved husband became too much for the Queen to bear and Isabella of Aragon passed away in grief on in the first days of September, leaving the court draped in black for over a year.
Joao, now king of Portugal saw the writing on the wall and designated the duke of Coimbra as his heir. In December of 1523 Philippa of Brabant saw her second wedding of that year, as bride to the now crown prince Peter of Portugal and that marriage would last far longer than her first one had done, much to her and Peter’s joy, even amidst the sorrows that had racked the court for several months.
King Joao III of Portugal in 1524
Author's Note: A year's adventure in Portugal and poor Philippa did not have the easiest of first marriages. And a farewell to Alfonso and Isabella of Aragon, united in death together.
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I know, but I wanted my king Peter II of Portugal as it was in my old Burgundian tl and Philippa brings some fresh blood into the Avis family.
Lol, Philippa the time traveler.