Targets of an expansionist, quasi-fascist China?

Let's say that instead of the chaos of the early republic and warlord years, China gets a more-or-less fascist ruler. Every good fascist country wants to go on an annexation spree, of course, but what would said fascist China go after?

Outer Mongolia during the chaos of the Russian Civil War (probably not butterflied away)?

Outer Manchuria (aka Vladivostok and the Russian Pacific)?

Korea and/or Taiwan despite the proven risks inherent in a war with Japan?

What else is there, really? Early 20th century China doesn't really have a lot of potential lebensraum, does it? Am I missing any low or not-so-low hanging fruit?
 
Since Stalin preferred helping Nationalists instead Mao ( confuses me as well ) the thought of attacking its provider and effectively shooting himself in the foot is a no - no.

Japan is almost certainly to be this China's first victim:D and evacuate the mainland.

Second one would be French Indochina after the fall of Metropolitan France.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Since Stalin preferred helping Nationalists instead Mao ( confuses me as well ) the thought of attacking its provider and effectively shooting himself in the foot is a no - no.

Japan is almost certainly to be this China's first victim:D and evacuate the mainland.

Second one would be French Indochina after the fall of Metropolitan France.

It is actually quite likely that a fascist China would develop different international relationships, so one should not necessarily assume that the USSR would still be an ally. It might well be, but just as likely its main buddy might be the Euro-Axis.
 
I think a rematch with Japan would be the first priority. There's reclaiming Korea as a Chinese vassal and retaking Taiwan, for starters.

Heck, putting the "dwarf barbarians" in their place and actually invading Japan might be pondered in the long run--there the Japanese carrier fleet to deal with.
 
That would have significant international butterflies given that the POD required for this is rather deep in Chinese history. A fascist China is going to go after Tibet and Xinjiang as the obvious one given the historical factions in the Chinese Civil War both agreed that the conquest of both areas was of necessity. This China may well seize any opportunity it can get not to go to Japan first but to invade Indochina, one of their other traditional spheres of influence.
 
That would have significant international butterflies given that the POD required for this is rather deep in Chinese history. A fascist China is going to go after Tibet and Xinjiang as the obvious one given the historical factions in the Chinese Civil War both agreed that the conquest of both areas was of necessity. This China may well seize any opportunity it can get not to go to Japan first but to invade Indochina, one of their other traditional spheres of influence.

Tibet would be an easy "starter conquest."

Xinjiang likewise, unless the Soviets get involved.

About Japan, if our Chinese-fascist state emerges in the 1920s or so, they'll have some grudges from "the last war" to work out.
 

Faeelin

Banned
I'm not as sure about Sino-Japanese hostility as everyone else here. In OTL there were a lot of fond feelings between Japanese and Chinese individuals; the Japanese only began to look at the Japanese more condescendingly as they became stronger and and China broke up.

Maybe the result isn't a Sino-Japanese conflict, but an alliance to impose the Kingly Way upon all of Asia...
 
An authoritarian one, surely.

Nah, he openly flirted with fascism and was quite intrested in emulating the ''success'' of European fascism. The goverment he established would have been undobutedly fascist in nature & outlook. Of course as ''first amonst warlords'' he never really had the chance to rule over China effectively...

Also having a stable post-Qing China is nearly ASB. The country was a f**king mess, decades before the Qing fell. The Taiping & Boxers alone would indacate that.
 
Tibet would be an easy "starter conquest."

Xinjiang likewise, unless the Soviets get involved.

About Japan, if our Chinese-fascist state emerges in the 1920s or so, they'll have some grudges from "the last war" to work out.

There's the big problem for the Chinese that where East Asia's concerned there's only one real naval power and that's Japan. They'd fight on the mainland, not on the sea, and avoid dragging Japan into it until they're strong enough to smack them out in a single, easy strike as opposed to a protracted war.
 
Wasn't the Kuomintang a Quasi Fascist Expansionist state? Well certainly quasi fascist. Full Fascist, maybe under the Blue Shirts society.
 
Let's assume this isn't anything to do with the KMT, but a rival, more explicitly fascist (in fact, if not in name, since we're a bit early for the actual fascists) movement that manages to take control after the 1911 Revolution, or at least after Yuan Shi'kai dies.

So maybe Tibet out of the gate, earning the stern disapproval but not much else of the British, and then, while Russia is busy with its civil war, a re-conquest of Outer Mongolia. These are pretty easy, even for a country as struggling as post-Qing China. After that, our Maximum Leader will probably want to quell any internal unrest and try and get China's house in better order. And then trying to drive the Japanese out of Manchuria, perhaps? Could a Chinese Mussolini or Franco manage to pull the country together enough to do it? Maybe, maybe not, but I can see him trying despite the odds.
 
Also having a stable post-Qing China is nearly ASB. The country was a f**king mess, decades before the Qing fell. The Taiping & Boxers alone would indacate that.

Easiest way is to have one of the warlords take control the country and reinstall the Qing Emperor on the throne. I once did a TL about a surviving Qing who side with the Nazis. Feng Yuxiang was the dictator.
 
Odd idea; Nationalist edge.

Is there descendants of the *Ming* dynasty that could be used?

An Han dynasty, legitimate, would have way more cred.
 
Getting back Taiwan and Korea, as well as everything else belonging to the Qing Empire is the first step, obviously. If the Xinhai Revolution comes fifteen years early (after the FSJW) or even a decade in advance of the OTL date, that would give the RoC more time to establish itself before Russia has its revolution in 1917 that makes Communism into a new fad. There would still be leftist opposition, but a KMT with more time to build itself would have less problems dealing with the CCP which would only come in 1921. With greater political stability, the KMT would've gotten a head start in modernization of industry, military and the society. This could have the following effects on China's international status.
- China might have come to butt heads with Japan again in the 1910s or 20s, and if they win, we could see the first of Republican China's territorial conquests in the form of Korea and/or Taiwan.
- During the Russian Revolution, the KMT might have taken the opportunity to seize the Outer Manchuria territories owned by the former Russian empire. For this purpose, they could either be enemies of or indifferent to the Bolsheviks, if the former, they could claim to be helping get rid of White forces, which had a big presence in Siberia during the RCW. If Japan gets involved in the Russian Revolution like OTL, this Japanese presence as well as a Chinese one could lead to the aforementioned war with Japan in which Japan is defeated. End result? China gets its Siberian/outer Manchurian territories back, as well as Mongolia.
- In 1919, instead of being ignored by the major powers at the Versailles treaty, China could get more recognition as an emerging power. To appease it, the Western powers might give Qingdao back to China instead of Japan.
- Relations with Soviet Russia would be cool at best, given that the KMT has just taken a big chunk of Siberia, and Japan would be China's biggest enemy. If they still have Taiwan, this could prove a big point for conflict. If China plays its cards right, it could have good relations with the Anglosphere, and do a great deal of trade with them, enjoying a status mirroring that of the modern PrC. Like in OTL, they could get military tech and know-how from Weimar Germany.
- As China is more of a power than in OTL, Germany wouldn't break up with it in favor of Japan, and the Sino-German cooperation would continue. As a result, as TTL's WW2 nears, perhaps China would attack Russia. My guess is that they would lose (as Japan did in 1939), and focus their strategic bulk toward Japan anyhow.

As TTL's WW2 draws near, we would see Japan standing alone and increasingly desperate as China gets stronger and stronger under KMT rule and with foreign help. TTL's "pearl harbor" attack may very well come in the form of a massive Japanese attempt to sink the entire Chinese fleet in port, while making lightening attacks on Korea, Hainan, various ports, and as in OTL, the oil-rich DEI. They might bypass the Philippines for fear of angering America, which ITTL has been replaced by China as Japan's archenemy. In any case, TTL's Pacific War will be a showdown between China and Japan, the two modernized powers of East Asia.
- The war in the West, depending on butterflies, might give the Nazis more luck, enough to defeat Russia and go on a path ending in either the "Greater German Reich" scenario or CalBear's TL, or give the Nazis a harder time in key areas like Poland or France. Either way, Germany would have no reason to quit being friendly with China, and would continue helping it up until either it has no resources left to spare or war conditions make this impossible.
- China's situation with Russia is uncertain, but I think the best bet is an uneasy peace, similar to what Japan had. If Germany gets the lucky butterflies and conquers European Russia, expect China to go and swallow the rest of Siberia in the later stages of WW2. This however is not that likely.
- The war with Japan could go a few ways:
-- China kicks ass from the get-go and brushes off Japan's surprise attack. No Chinese territory is conquered, Japan forced to give up everything but the home islands.
-- China is briefly shocked by the blitzkrieg, and Japan succeeds in taking Korea, the DEI, and severely damages the Chinese navy/air force. The war goes on until China wears down Japan with attrition, culminating in either a favorable-to-China peace settlement or invasion of Japan, after which Japan becomes a Chinese puppet or grudging ally.
-- China suffers in the initial attack, and the Japanese are even able to take a lot of territory on the mainland, though not as much as in the OTL SSJW. However, China is able to crush the Japanese in several major battles, driving them off the mainland. If America and the UK get involved, it could end in Chinese and Allied occupation zones of Japan. Given the probable lack of major ideological disagreement between China and the US and UK, Japan would eventually be made independent and peaceful.

Thus, after TTL's WW2 (and 3rd Sino-Japanese War), China would be a rising Great Power, at least on par with Russia (assuming Russia defeated the Germans), with Japan having been decisively defeated as a militant power in the war. It would be for sure a great military power, and with economic cooperation with the Western Allies, have a burgeoning industry as well. By 1975, I could see China having the world's biggest economy.
 
Last edited:
Top