As someone who's been cheering for the Democrats 1920 can't come soon enough!
As someone who's been cheering for the Democrats 1920 can't come soon enough!We’re rapidly reaching the point where previous wanks can and will pivot to hardcore screws
Yeah, there’s a reason I’m not entirely sold on going Full Ayatollah with that kernel of an idea, and giving myself wiggle room to redirect. I do know though that I want to go in a different direction with Russia than “Tsar but liberal Westminster democracy” which is boring and doesn’t really understand what made Russia both of and not of Europe. It’s Eurasian character to me is more interesting than anything else, as is it’s Orthodoxy (I am myself of an Orthodox background)I'd argue it'd be hard to get Russia to that sort of theocratic state, as discussed above. But not impossible, especially if you have almost the entirety of the 20th century to very slowly tilt key factors to it. As it was OTL the Iranian Revolution resulting in the theocratic Shia state we know today was by no means inevitable and took a lot of factors playing out just right for it to happen.
And let's be honest, the slowly tilting of making those factors come together perfectly is exactly the sort of content that we love to see in a timeline. It's like cooking together a great meal and watching it slowly come together
It’s good to have things to look forward to! 🤪As someone who's been cheering for the Democrats 1920 can't come soon enough!
You could always make Russia almost an OTL America parallel, though obviously far poorer - a strong executive detached from the legislature that nevertheless has power of the purse, plenty of religious folk, though often not of the most established type (think a growth in Rosicrucianism), and a worker's movement somewhat stymied by a rapid rise in living standards. There could also be a very wealthy Far East in Russia, as trade with Japan and China makes Vladivostok (I think that's Russian ITTL, right?) and even Irkutsk quite wealthy, all supplied by the almighty Trans-Siberian Railroad. The question to me is how exactly Russia gives rights to its minorities, if at all. Polish, Ukrainian, and Baltic national sentiment isn't going away, and I somehow doubt that the Tsar will adequately address this problem on his own. Central Asia might also become a problem, though it's notable that the first empire-wide democratic election in Russia was for the Grand Mufti of the Russian Empire.Yeah, there’s a reason I’m not entirely sold on going Full Ayatollah with that kernel of an idea, and giving myself wiggle room to redirect. I do know though that I want to go in a different direction with Russia than “Tsar but liberal Westminster democracy” which is boring and doesn’t really understand what made Russia both of and not of Europe. It’s Eurasian character to me is more interesting than anything else, as is it’s Orthodoxy (I am myself of an Orthodox background)
That's not a bad spin. I've always been curious about a Russia where Siberia and the Far East (and yes, Vladivostok is definitely Russian ITTL - it even has a slightly larger hinterland) have the same cultural position in the Russian mind as the Wild West does for Americans.You could always make Russia almost an OTL America parallel, though obviously far poorer - a strong executive detached from the legislature that nevertheless has power of the purse, plenty of religious folk, though often not of the most established type (think a growth in Rosicrucianism), and a worker's movement somewhat stymied by a rapid rise in living standards. There could also be a very wealthy Far East in Russia, as trade with Japan and China makes Vladivostok (I think that's Russian ITTL, right?) and even Irkutsk quite wealthy, all supplied by the almighty Trans-Siberian Railroad. The question to me is how exactly Russia gives rights to its minorities, if at all. Polish, Ukrainian, and Baltic national sentiment isn't going away, and I somehow doubt that the Tsar will adequately address this problem on his own. Central Asia might also become a problem, though it's notable that the first empire-wide democratic election in Russia was for the Grand Mufti of the Russian Empire.
Part of where this is wierd is that if the AH empire disintegrates, having grab Bohemia makes sense, Galicia makes little sense and Burkovina much less. (As I asked before, what is the situation with Romania and Bulgaria???) If the Ottomans still have them, then this TL may be more unique for creating a German/Ottoman border than for anything else!That's not a bad spin. I've always been curious about a Russia where Siberia and the Far East (and yes, Vladivostok is definitely Russian ITTL - it even has a slightly larger hinterland) have the same cultural position in the Russian mind as the Wild West does for Americans.
At some point, Polish/Baltic/Finnish sentiment becomes hard to ignore, especially the first two since they don't enjoy the carveouts that Finland do as a "Grand Duchy." A personal union with Poland would be an obvious answer but may not be obvious to the Tsarist camarilla. Michael may be less authoritarian than his father, but by all accounts he was fairly naive and easily swayed; I've seen very mixed reviews, both strongly positive and sharply negative, on what kind of Tsar he'd have made. (@alexmilman is welcome to pop in here at any time as always to add context from a Russian perspective).
Ukraine can probably be somewhat more mollified within the Empire; I'll steer clear of present-day politics on that matter, but it took a lot, with the Holodomor a big part of it, and the context of the Soviet and post-Soviet relationship for Ukrainian nationalism to become what it is today. Somebody previously proposed in the OG thread that Ukraine could be something like Imperial Russia's Scotland, and I kinda like that. It'd probably be fairly Russified, particularly east of the Dnieper, and bear in mind that much of what is today western Ukraine is within Austrian Galicia or Bukovina ITTL as of 1915, but the Kyiv area would probably be quite culturally distinct.
I would maintain that Poland, Lithuania and Finland eventually become independent and the Baltics are a wild card; as of right now, my instinct is keeping Kyiv and its environs inside Russia, but Ukraine may have special rights compared to other parts.
From what I remember Romania is still independent and still is under the same dynasty as OTL but because the Ottomans won the war of 1877/78 Bulgaria is still entirely a province of the Ottoman Empire. Romania was recognized as independent because it was already effectively independent pre-1877.Part of where this is wierd is that if the AH empire disintegrates, having grab Bohemia makes sense, Galicia makes little sense and Burkovina much less. (As I asked before, what is the situation with Romania and Bulgaria???) If the Ottomans still have them, then this TL may be more unique for creating a German/Ottoman border than for anything else!
Germany is going to have a very surgical strategy in how it approaches its war gainsPart of where this is wierd is that if the AH empire disintegrates, having grab Bohemia makes sense, Galicia makes little sense and Burkovina much less. (As I asked before, what is the situation with Romania and Bulgaria???) If the Ottomans still have them, then this TL may be more unique for creating a German/Ottoman border than for anything else!
This is correctFrom what I remember Romania is still independent and still is under the same dynasty as OTL but because the Ottomans won the war of 1877/78 Bulgaria is still entirely a province of the Ottoman Empire. Romania was recognized as independent because it was already effectively independent pre-1877.
About the development of the Russian state, weirdly I think they might have similar issues to the Ottomans here, as in thanks to not facing the loses they did in the OTL they continue to invest in the regions they like or costal ones ie the Baltics and Crimea (it's like hmm Kashmir for the Raj for nobility ) and continue the deep neglect of well Russia excluding some areas like Moscow similar to how the Ottomans are going to neglect their Anatolian, Arab provinces. I would not be surprised if the Baltics, Ukraine ect are kept this continues and you see the rise of regionalists in Russia demanding well the state stop neglecting them.I would maintain that Poland, Lithuania and Finland eventually become independent and the Baltics are a wild card; as of right now, my instinct is keeping Kyiv and its environs inside Russia, but Ukraine may have special rights compared to other parts.
They were definitely around but with war time rationing, maybe not as many hotdogs (meat rations) and candied foods (sugar will be very expensive for the Union given their enemies and interruption of Caribbean trade). Since the CSA is separate, lemonade and nuts won't be the same culinary mainstreams north of the border, at least until California really ramps up its agriculture.[2] I have no idea to what extent concessions were sold at Major League ballparks in 1913, for the record
With maple syrup.They were definitely around but with war time rationing, maybe not as many hotdogs (meat rations) and candied foods (sugar will be very expensive for the Union given their enemies and interruption of Caribbean trade). Since the CSA is separate, lemonade and nuts won't be the same culinary mainstreams north of the border, at least until California really ramps up its agriculture.
Popcorn and watered down beer?
Like a Tijuana/San Diego situation, just at Vyborg? Perhaps…About the development of the Russian state, weirdly I think they might have similar issues to the Ottomans here, as in thanks to not facing the loses they did in the OTL they continue to invest in the regions they like or costal ones ie the Baltics and Crimea (it's like hmm Kashmir for the Raj for nobility ) and continue the deep neglect of well Russia excluding some areas like Moscow similar to how the Ottomans are going to neglect their Anatolian, Arab provinces. I would not be surprised if the Baltics, Ukraine ect are kept this continues and you see the rise of regionalists in Russia demanding well the state stop neglecting them.
That said, not disagreeing about Finland, but I do think depending on how things go it might look a bit different, the sudden separation from Russia while bad and WW1 wrecked the economy South Finland I think had a very link to Saint Petersburg, you know seasonal work, trading ect so I wonder if the split is not hostile here you could see the city gradually creep into the Finnish border if it keeps expanding.
Gotta be especially watered down so that those temperance prudes at the Grain Board don’t get any ideas again…They were definitely around but with war time rationing, maybe not as many hotdogs (meat rations) and candied foods (sugar will be very expensive for the Union given their enemies and interruption of Caribbean trade). Since the CSA is separate, lemonade and nuts won't be the same culinary mainstreams north of the border, at least until California really ramps up its agriculture.
Popcorn and watered down beer?
*gags*With maple syrup.
Yep that works, that is if Finland leaving is not that hostile, always felt Saint Petersburg's/Finland have a dynamic often unexplored when the former almost has a bigger population than the later and people in South Finland looked for it for goods, place for work ect. Good analogy.Like a Tijuana/San Diego situation, just at Vyborg? Perhaps…
jesus christ irene theyre called mineralsKaiser Hank is a major upgrade even if the liberalism of him and his father are often overstated by what-could-have-been historians
Ah, that is very true… a larger St. Petersburg that stays the capital/entrepôt would have more people than the whole of Finland, which is in its hinterland!Yep that works, that is if Finland leaving is not that hostile, always felt Saint Petersburg's/Finland have a dynamic often unexplored when the former almost has a bigger population than the later and people in South Finland looked for it for goods, place for work ect. Good analogy.
Edit Plus a strong demand for Finnish wood in the city as well.
??jesus christ irene theyre called minerals
shouldn't this be frederick the great?establishment of Prussia as a great power under Friedrich Wilhelm III
in breaking bad hank schraeder says to his wife marie 'jesus christ marie theyre minerals' and you called heinrich kaiser hank which is what i was referencing??
Heinrich’s wife was called Irene, but not sure what you’re referencing here
I popped for this joke! Nice job!jesus christ irene theyre called minerals