So I'm playing around with an idea and I have a problem. What effects would Prussia, for whatever reason be it Napoleon winning, a different land trade, not getting the Rhine Province have? Would they still be able to develop into a leading German state or would they fade as industrialization took hold? Would they be able to unite "Germany"?
Prussia with no Rhine Province
- Thread starter Arch-Angel
- Start date
Someone other than Prussia. I know context makes a difference in these situations, but I'm still working on other details.
Netherlands!
Could it become independent? A bufferstate with the Palatinate as an inspiration for nationhood?
Netherlands!
Could it become independent? A bufferstate with the Palatinate as an inspiration for nationhood?
Sure! All of the above, none of the above.
My idea:
The Netherlands gets the Rhineland up to the Mossel and the Rhine. The Rhineland beyond the Rhine becomes the Kingdom of Westphalia. The Palatinate takes the rest.
To compensate Prussia for the loss of its Rhineland provinces, it is given the rest of Saxony. The House of Wettin is granted the rule of Westphalia.
All are pleased!
The Netherlands gets the Rhineland up to the Mossel and the Rhine. The Rhineland beyond the Rhine becomes the Kingdom of Westphalia. The Palatinate takes the rest.
To compensate Prussia for the loss of its Rhineland provinces, it is given the rest of Saxony. The House of Wettin is granted the rule of Westphalia.
All are pleased!
Nietzsche
Banned
Eh, the Dutch are already getting Flanders and Wallonia, and they were on the losing side of the war. Giving them the Rhine is preposterous. The best thing to do is create a "Kingdom of the Rhine" or some other such state, and install a Prussia-leaning Prince onto the throne(since the British would rather not it go back to France..)
The Dutch government as of 1815 was on our side, after having fought their way out of the French Empire. It's hardly preposterous to give the winning side more territory - and it's not that much more.
Perhaps if the Powers were more inclined to be nice to Holland for some reason? I started a TL where my division was proposed by Britain, after Princess Charlotte of Wales married the Dutch heir (never did finish it...)
The problem is that Prussia lost territory relative to 1795 at the settlement despite being on the winning side, and a generation of sacrifice, even with the Rhenish province. If Prussia doesn't get this province then the only question is what Prussia does get instead.
Saxony? Half of the 'Kingdom' of Poland?
Saxony? Half of the 'Kingdom' of Poland?
I maybe don't understand it clearly, but is your start point a French victory? Or is it an outcome of the congress of Vienna. In the last case the Dutch solution is a very real situation, after all Luxembourg was part of the dual monarchic of The Netherlands after 1815. With the mentioned part of Germany that piece of the kingdom is linked with the largest part.
I'm more focusing on the effects on Prussia itself. The Rhine gave Prussia industrial power. Without it, what happens?
No, though that might be interesting. It was more for determining borders and things that go from there. I would like to try and keep Prussia a power, but am trying inventive ways of creating a German state, or not one at all.
Nietzsche
Banned
Give them Saxony, "New Prussia"(that large chunk of Poland), and have them expand into the Baltic states and slowly secure the coast. Meckelburg, Denmark, all easy pickings for the "Army with a State".
Without a reasonable power as a backing such country will be walked-over by the Prussians whenever they wanted.
The Rhine-Westphalian area was not the sole important prussian industrial region.
So long as the Kingdom of Prussia retains the Saxony- and the Silesia-province, the Kingdom of Prussia would become an industrial power.
If you want a OTL-like powerful, but less german Kingdom of Prussia, give them Bohemia, another important industrial region.