Oh that'd be a disaster and a half. Would like to see the cluster fuck that comes from this tho...
Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
I'd think their borders won't stretch to the pontic region tho. That's Soviet territory.
This was one of the Greek proposals at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. I imagine they will want a large buffer area either side of Constantinople.
Maybe but i want to see a stable federal republic in the northern borders of greece instead of a cluster f*ck
I mean... You got Macedonians, Albanians and Bulgarians at least on the Greek border. I don't think Yugoslavia is going to hold properly if they continue on the trajectory they did otl. Maybe having a good monarchy (a REALLY good one) will save them but other than that Yugoslavia is bound to collapse due to ethnic tensions.
Well if north Macedonia and Bulgaria are in the same state there is no Reason for Yugoslav or should i say tito's push to create the Macedonian identity, besides the collapse of Yugoslavia was caused by the economic breakdown of the state that let nationalism and ethnic tension that came from the bad state of the economy plus the various political parties that exploited the rising tension for there only gain..or at least i think so
I think Yugoslavia if they ally with the US should stay together. Barely.
The Macedonian identity already exists ittl as it got its start in the late 19th century. I also think that the Serbian state will push for dual Macedonian-Serbian identity as that'd make for a population that they can manipulate. I'd see a possibility that Bulgaria wants to join Yugoslavia after they successfully are released by the USSR, but anything else isn't plausible at this point.
Of course they do. Soviet war doctrine in the inter-war years was pivoting about the primacy of the offensive. It makes sense they react to a new front by following their established doctrine no?
Coming from the general region I'll make no comment.
The Jews in Bulgaria proper were for the most part protected. The Jews in Bulgarian occupied areas were shipped off to the camps.
Turkey of 1941 also has more railroads than the Turkey of 1914. So in that respect they are better off than WW1.
They also hold southern Greece, including what amounts to the largest port in Eastern Mediterranean. If that holds into 1942-43....
How the Germans react to an increased allied thret to Ploesti if their hopes of knocking out the Soviets by the end of the year fall through? That's an interesting question...
TE Lawrence. Occupations: Archaeologist, Soldier, Instigator of anti-Turkish revolts.
But stay tuned for a certain other unoccupied eccentric Brit.
My assumption is it has replaced I-16 in the production lines. Now in OTL 2710 Ishaks were built in 1940 and 1115 in 1941.
It lost more aircraft over Poland, somewhat fewer over France and Britain... but also caused less damage. By the end of the battle of Britain it has as many aircraft as in OTL but the RAF has lost 174 fewer aircraft which find their way to the Mediterranean over the next few months. In the battle of Greece the Luftwaffe has lost fewer aircraft overall (in OTL they lost way too many aircraft over Crete despite no serious opposition in the air). OTOH the Italians have lost way more and some of the Italian, Turkish, Bulgarian, Romanian etc casualties need to be replaced at least in part...
In OTL the TOMTAS factory in theory was able to build p to 250 aircraft a year. It never built more than a fraction.
The clever thing would be providing machine tools or for that matter engines not just to the Turks but also to the Bulgarians and the Romanians. After all Germany had more machine tools than most of the rest of the world combined and Jumo 211 during the war was overproduced by something like 10,000 engines IMS (have to fild again where I got that tidbit from...)
The alt-He-177 has 4 ju-211. Assuming the same number of 1,169 He-177 you need 4,676 ju-211s, taking up about half of the 10,000 unused. And you just freed up about 5000 DB-601s and 605s from the DV-606s and 610s you don't need...
Do-19 is taking up the place late Do-17, Do-215 and Do-217. Were I to make a guess you may well have killed Do-217 at birth...
I don't see why with things altered in 1920, Chkalov will crash the prototype on schedule...
It is overreaching. This is just the first couple of weeks of the German invasion, in the air the Soviet air force is being massacred. I think the Germans getting carried over by their victories isn't surprising. And they pay for it.
I won't go there, the dispute frankly bores me, I have my opinions obviously, but after seeing a quarter century of flamewars the last thing I care to see is one more flamewar over the matter on my thread. Suffice to say that as of 1941 the local population received the Bulgarian army as liberators and the MPO in the United States also supported the Bulgarian occupation.
Please tell me Evelyn Waugh is parachuted behind Turkish lines and poisons wells by his toxic personality. Meanwhile Robert Graves enters Spain and drives everyone mad by declaring General Mola to be his poetic muse and manifestation of the Goddess.
Or it could be Mad Jack Churchill making a nuisance of themselves
I won't say I know much about it so yeah sure.
Any person bringing a two handed sword and bow and arrow should not be considered sane.Or it could be Mad Jack Churchill making a nuisance of themselves
The British will almost certainly be able to send a better naval force. Not sure if North Africa and the Middle East can be wrapped up in time to send forces, but butterflies might put someone competent in Singapore.
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While it is a common trope to have Monty sent to Singapore, I am not sure how plausible it would be. Montgomery didn't have served in the Indian Army so it would have been a weird choice. Auchinleck is a natural choice for a theater that will use mostly Indian Army formations.
However, I am afraid that with more commitments to the Syrian and Iraqi Fronts, Britain will be hard-pressed to send army units in Malaya.
Agreed, my argument was that butterflies might get anyone but Percival in charge out there, with it almost guaranteed that they'll do better than OTL.
I might have a potentially plausible POD: In TTL the British face a protracted war in Iraq where they deal with a popular revolt. Arthur Percival had experience in counter intelligence from Ireland, as well as dealing with an insurection. It seems that a man with his talents might find himself between the Tigris and the Euphrates.
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Part 79
Madrid, July 7th, 1941
If Emilio Mola had learned anything from his coup in 1936 it had hardly shown by his new coup the previous day. Back at the war's end Ochoa had made Mola minister of war and Juan Yague minister of the air force. With both ministers backing the coup it would seem that success should had been relatively easy. But the two generals did not quite see eye to eye since the time of the war as the much more dynamic Yague had been highly critical of Mola and post war Yague has been put in control of the air force, conveniently being removed from direct command of army units, through promotion. And while Mola was minister of war, chief of staff of the army was Jose Varela who was a Carlist and not friendly to Germany, all the more so since the Alfonsists including prince Juan, the pretender to the throne, appeared to be supportive of the Axis at the moment. And for good measure British secret services were spreading gold among Spanish governing circles, general Cabanillas in the open a leading pro-German but actually in British pay being an excellent example.
Thus the coup had failed. But had failed only in part as Yague had fought his way out of Madrid to take over command of the rebels. And thus Falangists and Alfonsists found themselves fighting an unlikely alliance of conservative republicans and Carlists while the defeated Loyalists of the first war watched. The second Spanish civil war had begun...
Soviet Union, July 9th, 1941
The German army captured Vitebsk marking the beginning of the battle of Smolensk.
West of Köprüköy, July 10th, 1941
The 6 Gebirgs division joined the fighting against the Soviets. For the past ten days the men of the 3rd Turkish army had fought with great determination to stop the Soviets. But they had still been pushed back over seventy km suffering over 17,000 casualties under masses of Soviet tanks and artillery, the Soviets had thrown nearly 900 tanks into the fight when the whole Turkish army had fewer than 200 anti-tank guns. Reinforcements were being brought forth as fast as railroads could carry them but by now the Soviets were les than forty km from Erzerum and pushing forward all along the front. Further to the north Rize, Rizounta to the Greeks, would fall to the Soviets the next day.
Thessaloniki, July 13th, 1941
From the 8th floor of the apartment block in Navarinou square, the Bulgarian flag on the White Tower was easily visible. Over the last two weeks the Bulgarians had removed all the Greek civil servants installing their own authorities, closed down the Aristotle University and brought their own priests for some of the most prominent churches like St Demetrios and Hagia Sophia. A couple of spontaneous attempts to organize demonstrations had been broken down easily by the Bulgarian army. Ironically the only ones putting some, little, limits to the Bulgarians were their Italian and German allies when they had a reason to be bothered. Ioannis Tsigantes, smuggled in by submarine three days before, turned back from the window and the offensive Bulgarian tricolour.
"So we are all in agreement. The enemy must be resisted by all means"
"A reprise of the Macedonian struggle?"
"If you will. Actually it is a pretty good example of when we need to be doing. Send intelligence back to Athens, sabotage the communication lines to Thessaly, generally make the bastards lives miserable."
And thus the National Liberation Organization was born.
Montenegro, July 13th, 1941
Montenegro rose up in revolt. Over the next three weeks the rebels would end up in almost complete control of its territory. It would take to the end of August for 70,000 Italian soldiers supported by Albanian and Bosniak militiamen to bring down the uprising.
Milan, July 15th, 1941
The previous months had not been good for the Regia Aeronautica which had suffered way more attrition than it could afford. Something needed to be done. The licence bought by FIAT to produce the DB-605 was, it was hoped at least, a step in that direction even thought the Germans appeared to be less cooperative than they could...
If Emilio Mola had learned anything from his coup in 1936 it had hardly shown by his new coup the previous day. Back at the war's end Ochoa had made Mola minister of war and Juan Yague minister of the air force. With both ministers backing the coup it would seem that success should had been relatively easy. But the two generals did not quite see eye to eye since the time of the war as the much more dynamic Yague had been highly critical of Mola and post war Yague has been put in control of the air force, conveniently being removed from direct command of army units, through promotion. And while Mola was minister of war, chief of staff of the army was Jose Varela who was a Carlist and not friendly to Germany, all the more so since the Alfonsists including prince Juan, the pretender to the throne, appeared to be supportive of the Axis at the moment. And for good measure British secret services were spreading gold among Spanish governing circles, general Cabanillas in the open a leading pro-German but actually in British pay being an excellent example.
Thus the coup had failed. But had failed only in part as Yague had fought his way out of Madrid to take over command of the rebels. And thus Falangists and Alfonsists found themselves fighting an unlikely alliance of conservative republicans and Carlists while the defeated Loyalists of the first war watched. The second Spanish civil war had begun...
Soviet Union, July 9th, 1941
The German army captured Vitebsk marking the beginning of the battle of Smolensk.
West of Köprüköy, July 10th, 1941
The 6 Gebirgs division joined the fighting against the Soviets. For the past ten days the men of the 3rd Turkish army had fought with great determination to stop the Soviets. But they had still been pushed back over seventy km suffering over 17,000 casualties under masses of Soviet tanks and artillery, the Soviets had thrown nearly 900 tanks into the fight when the whole Turkish army had fewer than 200 anti-tank guns. Reinforcements were being brought forth as fast as railroads could carry them but by now the Soviets were les than forty km from Erzerum and pushing forward all along the front. Further to the north Rize, Rizounta to the Greeks, would fall to the Soviets the next day.
Thessaloniki, July 13th, 1941
From the 8th floor of the apartment block in Navarinou square, the Bulgarian flag on the White Tower was easily visible. Over the last two weeks the Bulgarians had removed all the Greek civil servants installing their own authorities, closed down the Aristotle University and brought their own priests for some of the most prominent churches like St Demetrios and Hagia Sophia. A couple of spontaneous attempts to organize demonstrations had been broken down easily by the Bulgarian army. Ironically the only ones putting some, little, limits to the Bulgarians were their Italian and German allies when they had a reason to be bothered. Ioannis Tsigantes, smuggled in by submarine three days before, turned back from the window and the offensive Bulgarian tricolour.
"So we are all in agreement. The enemy must be resisted by all means"
"A reprise of the Macedonian struggle?"
"If you will. Actually it is a pretty good example of when we need to be doing. Send intelligence back to Athens, sabotage the communication lines to Thessaly, generally make the bastards lives miserable."
And thus the National Liberation Organization was born.
Montenegro, July 13th, 1941
Montenegro rose up in revolt. Over the next three weeks the rebels would end up in almost complete control of its territory. It would take to the end of August for 70,000 Italian soldiers supported by Albanian and Bosniak militiamen to bring down the uprising.
Milan, July 15th, 1941
The previous months had not been good for the Regia Aeronautica which had suffered way more attrition than it could afford. Something needed to be done. The licence bought by FIAT to produce the DB-605 was, it was hoped at least, a step in that direction even thought the Germans appeared to be less cooperative than they could...
And the Soviets continue their assault against the Turks. The Turks should start scrounging up any man that’s not occupying Eastern Anatolia to fight them. Would that allow a general uprising of the Greeks in the areas beyond Smyrna? At least I’d think the US/UK would be thinking about an offensive into Eastern Anatolia for Ionia to crush the Turks.Thessaloniki, July 13th, 1941
The Greeks continue to build up their covert operations to liberate their territories once again. Even with the Italians building German planes I can’t see the Italians holding their positions for long. Would WWII be shorter ittl?
There's still an awful lot of ground to cover, with the addition of Turkey to the Axis and whatever the hell becomes of Spain the war could well be longer. If not by much.
I mean the the battles in Germany/Northern European plain. Since those battles determine how the entire war goes.
To celebrate the new chapter and the soviet push into Turkey, I made a new potential map proposal! Complete with potential capitals!
Complete with a Socialist People's Republic of Northern Turkey, slight adjustments to the Greek borders, and what is surely not a flashpoint at the Kurdish/Syrian/North-South Turkish border!
Surely, surely, this map will guarantee a fair and long-lasting peace in the middle east for at least the next five minutes!
I have fun with map-painting alright? I did have fun researching potential Kurdish and South Turkish capitals too.
Complete with a Socialist People's Republic of Northern Turkey, slight adjustments to the Greek borders, and what is surely not a flashpoint at the Kurdish/Syrian/North-South Turkish border!
Surely, surely, this map will guarantee a fair and long-lasting peace in the middle east for at least the next five minutes!
I have fun with map-painting alright? I did have fun researching potential Kurdish and South Turkish capitals too.