OTL both sides sent forces. Turkey ATL would only send them as a singalong of cooperation with US. Also Turkey might not be in the UN initially. Last remember military restrictions.
Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
After the war, I wonder if Turkey might try to commit to a Ostpolitik-like foreign policy where it tries to reconcile with all of its neighbors, especially if Turkey becomes neutral and decides to be friendly to everyone as possible for good measure.
That will depend on how it is integrated into the new international political system. Ostpolitik had specific institutional and international antecedents and was conducted within a specific structure.
If there is a Royal Indian Navy why not a Cypriot one as well?
Did any of the defeated powers of WW2 have combat troops serving in Korea?
For only Dominions and the Raj got their own navies, all other colonies, including Malta just recruited into the RN
Part 139
Arakan, January 9th, 1944
British troops had taken Maungdaw a year ago only to fail to advance any further towards Akyab island. Then Bernard Montgomery had spent the passing year to systematically build up and train his forces while improving their supply situation while refusing all pressure to attack prematurely. Now the attack had finally come with the 7th Indian Division seizing Rajabil from the Japanese.
Verona, January 11th, 1944
Both the Greek and the Yugoslav governments would have very much wanted to have Galeazzo Ciano tried for war crimes. But it was not to be. When Italy had changed sides Ciano had not been fast enough in escaping Rome and had been captured by the Germans who had passed him over to the collaborationist government they had created under Roberto Farinacci. Ciano and five other Grand Fascist Council members who had voted against Mussolini and fell in German hands had been executed with the remaining thirteen who had been faster in escaping had been sentenced to death in absentia.
Monte Cassino, January 14th, 1944
229 USAAF bombers dropped 1,150 tons of bombs in the Monte Cassino abbey turning it into rubble. The next night the 4th Indian Division would attack up the slopes to capture the abbey. But by then German paratroopers had already taken up defensive positions in the ruins...
Anzio, January 19th, 1944
Three Allied naval task forces had moved against the beaches. The first would be landing the British 1st Infantry Division. The second the US 3rd infantry division. The third, consisting for the most part of Greek and French ships, the Greek II Infantry Division. By midnight 48,000 men had been landed, advancing 5km inland. But general John Lucas, the commander of the three Allied divisions would prefer to first build up his position in the beachhead before advancing further inland, despite reports that the road to Rome was open. While an understandable decision given his relatively small force it would also mean the Germans were also given sufficient time to move reinforcements in the area and contain the bridgehead.
Eastern Anatolia, January 20th, 1944
An artillery barrage hailed,= the resumption of the offensive by the Soviet 44th army. It would not prove to be the full scale offensive Fevzi Cakmak feared, the Soviets did not have sufficient numbers yet and the winter made supply in Anatolia difficult. But the Soviets would still gain several kilometers of ground over the coming weeks in a series of limited offensives, while it strained the Turkish army even more. Similar limited offensives over the past two months by the Greeks in the western front and the British and French in the southern front had already cost nearly 14,000 casualties, and while little territory had changed hands such bleeding was eating up the reinforcements reaching the army. The Soviets joining their western allies made things even worse.
Doiran, January 25th, 1944
Something resembling silence finally returned to the Macedonian front, following seventeen days of heavy fighting. The Germans and Bulgarians had suffered almost 21,000 casualties. Allied casualties at roughly 17,500 were slightly lower. But the Allied offensive had been stopped cold in the heights of Prilep and Doiran. The government of Dobri Bozhilov, on the advice of the true power within the country, regent Bogdan Filov would ensure the victory was widely celebrated all over the country to shore up the population's flagging morale after months of continuing bad news. But behind the scenes Bulgarian attitude was more sober. Three quarters of Axis casualties in the 2nd battle of Doiran had been suffered by the Bulgarian army. Nevertheless for now the pro-German government of Bulgaria could expect to be secure in its position.
Lemnos, January 26th, 1944
Rear admiral Konstantinos Alexandris had not been particularly happy with having to command Mudros station when the action was in Italian waters and the Anzio landings. Someone had to keep watch of the straits of course but it did not look particularly likely the Turks were coming out in force any time soon and the high command had thought the same which was why the battleships and all modern cruisers had been sent west to support the Anzio landings. Then the reports that the Turkish navy was coming out of the straits in force start coming.
Off Tenedos, January 26th, 1944
Admiral Mehmet Ali Ülgen was not particularly happy about having to venture in the Aegean. But unlike his predecessor in command of the fleet Rauf Orbay, his influence was rather limited. The armed forces were dominated by the army and marshal Cakmak and for Cakmak what mattered was interdicting the flow of supplies and reinforcements flowing into Smyrna. With intelligence claiming the Allies had left only Averof and a flotilla of destroyers back in Lemnos, a force on par, at least on paper, with his own squadron, the pressure on Ülgen to take action had been unbearable. He had managed to hold out for bad weather, in hopes of enemy aircraft being grounded before leading the light cruiser Yavuz Sultan Selim and 8 destroyers out if the straits.
The force under Alexandris that intercepted Ülgen was indeed equal in numbers to the Turkish squadron. But it had been clearly superior in firepower, electronics and training, the Greeks unlike their Turkish counterparts didn't have fuel shortages affecting their ability to train. And to make matters worse, the weather would clear enough for aircraft to operate while the battle was still underway. Four Zafer class destroyers would make it back to port, while the Greeks would lose the destroyer Aigaion, former HMS Border.
Ülgen would go down with his ship, when Yavuz was sunk.
Leningrad, January 27th, 1944
Soviet troops pushed the Germans away from the outskirts of the city. After 29 months and 2 million dead, half of them civilians, the siege of Leningrad was finally over. The Soviet offensive pressed on with the Soviets advancing towards Narva. In the north of Leningrad Finnish troops retained the positions they had gained in 1941. Plans were already underway in the STAVKA for an offensive that would knock Finland out of the war but to do so would require large scale reinforcement of the forces in the Karelian isthmus. But reinforcements were also needed for the planned offensive in Anatolia that would hopefully knock Turkey out of the war. It was questionable whether the Soviet Union had sufficient resources to conduct both offensives simultaneously while also fighting the Germans.
Cisterna, January 27th, 1944
A company of Panzer IV and Lowe tanks from the 15th Panzergrenadier division had ambushed the Greek 7th Infantry Regiment advancing on Cisterna but the Greeks anti-tank guns had knocked out several tanks and the 1st and 34th Infantry Regiments had quickly joined the battle. By nightfall the II Infantry Division under Euripides Bakirtzis was in control of Cisterna and the next day would beat back a counterattack by the Hermann Göring and 71st Infantry divisions. But the Germans would be able to check the Greek advance as well as the broader breakout attempt from the Anzio bridgehead. By the time Lucas had finally attacked there where 81,000 Allied soldiers ashore but he had given Kesserling sufficient time to move over 71,000 men to contain the bridgehead...
British troops had taken Maungdaw a year ago only to fail to advance any further towards Akyab island. Then Bernard Montgomery had spent the passing year to systematically build up and train his forces while improving their supply situation while refusing all pressure to attack prematurely. Now the attack had finally come with the 7th Indian Division seizing Rajabil from the Japanese.
Verona, January 11th, 1944
Both the Greek and the Yugoslav governments would have very much wanted to have Galeazzo Ciano tried for war crimes. But it was not to be. When Italy had changed sides Ciano had not been fast enough in escaping Rome and had been captured by the Germans who had passed him over to the collaborationist government they had created under Roberto Farinacci. Ciano and five other Grand Fascist Council members who had voted against Mussolini and fell in German hands had been executed with the remaining thirteen who had been faster in escaping had been sentenced to death in absentia.
Monte Cassino, January 14th, 1944
229 USAAF bombers dropped 1,150 tons of bombs in the Monte Cassino abbey turning it into rubble. The next night the 4th Indian Division would attack up the slopes to capture the abbey. But by then German paratroopers had already taken up defensive positions in the ruins...
Anzio, January 19th, 1944
Three Allied naval task forces had moved against the beaches. The first would be landing the British 1st Infantry Division. The second the US 3rd infantry division. The third, consisting for the most part of Greek and French ships, the Greek II Infantry Division. By midnight 48,000 men had been landed, advancing 5km inland. But general John Lucas, the commander of the three Allied divisions would prefer to first build up his position in the beachhead before advancing further inland, despite reports that the road to Rome was open. While an understandable decision given his relatively small force it would also mean the Germans were also given sufficient time to move reinforcements in the area and contain the bridgehead.
Eastern Anatolia, January 20th, 1944
An artillery barrage hailed,= the resumption of the offensive by the Soviet 44th army. It would not prove to be the full scale offensive Fevzi Cakmak feared, the Soviets did not have sufficient numbers yet and the winter made supply in Anatolia difficult. But the Soviets would still gain several kilometers of ground over the coming weeks in a series of limited offensives, while it strained the Turkish army even more. Similar limited offensives over the past two months by the Greeks in the western front and the British and French in the southern front had already cost nearly 14,000 casualties, and while little territory had changed hands such bleeding was eating up the reinforcements reaching the army. The Soviets joining their western allies made things even worse.
Doiran, January 25th, 1944
Something resembling silence finally returned to the Macedonian front, following seventeen days of heavy fighting. The Germans and Bulgarians had suffered almost 21,000 casualties. Allied casualties at roughly 17,500 were slightly lower. But the Allied offensive had been stopped cold in the heights of Prilep and Doiran. The government of Dobri Bozhilov, on the advice of the true power within the country, regent Bogdan Filov would ensure the victory was widely celebrated all over the country to shore up the population's flagging morale after months of continuing bad news. But behind the scenes Bulgarian attitude was more sober. Three quarters of Axis casualties in the 2nd battle of Doiran had been suffered by the Bulgarian army. Nevertheless for now the pro-German government of Bulgaria could expect to be secure in its position.
Lemnos, January 26th, 1944
Rear admiral Konstantinos Alexandris had not been particularly happy with having to command Mudros station when the action was in Italian waters and the Anzio landings. Someone had to keep watch of the straits of course but it did not look particularly likely the Turks were coming out in force any time soon and the high command had thought the same which was why the battleships and all modern cruisers had been sent west to support the Anzio landings. Then the reports that the Turkish navy was coming out of the straits in force start coming.
Off Tenedos, January 26th, 1944
Admiral Mehmet Ali Ülgen was not particularly happy about having to venture in the Aegean. But unlike his predecessor in command of the fleet Rauf Orbay, his influence was rather limited. The armed forces were dominated by the army and marshal Cakmak and for Cakmak what mattered was interdicting the flow of supplies and reinforcements flowing into Smyrna. With intelligence claiming the Allies had left only Averof and a flotilla of destroyers back in Lemnos, a force on par, at least on paper, with his own squadron, the pressure on Ülgen to take action had been unbearable. He had managed to hold out for bad weather, in hopes of enemy aircraft being grounded before leading the light cruiser Yavuz Sultan Selim and 8 destroyers out if the straits.
The force under Alexandris that intercepted Ülgen was indeed equal in numbers to the Turkish squadron. But it had been clearly superior in firepower, electronics and training, the Greeks unlike their Turkish counterparts didn't have fuel shortages affecting their ability to train. And to make matters worse, the weather would clear enough for aircraft to operate while the battle was still underway. Four Zafer class destroyers would make it back to port, while the Greeks would lose the destroyer Aigaion, former HMS Border.
Ülgen would go down with his ship, when Yavuz was sunk.
Leningrad, January 27th, 1944
Soviet troops pushed the Germans away from the outskirts of the city. After 29 months and 2 million dead, half of them civilians, the siege of Leningrad was finally over. The Soviet offensive pressed on with the Soviets advancing towards Narva. In the north of Leningrad Finnish troops retained the positions they had gained in 1941. Plans were already underway in the STAVKA for an offensive that would knock Finland out of the war but to do so would require large scale reinforcement of the forces in the Karelian isthmus. But reinforcements were also needed for the planned offensive in Anatolia that would hopefully knock Turkey out of the war. It was questionable whether the Soviet Union had sufficient resources to conduct both offensives simultaneously while also fighting the Germans.
Cisterna, January 27th, 1944
A company of Panzer IV and Lowe tanks from the 15th Panzergrenadier division had ambushed the Greek 7th Infantry Regiment advancing on Cisterna but the Greeks anti-tank guns had knocked out several tanks and the 1st and 34th Infantry Regiments had quickly joined the battle. By nightfall the II Infantry Division under Euripides Bakirtzis was in control of Cisterna and the next day would beat back a counterattack by the Hermann Göring and 71st Infantry divisions. But the Germans would be able to check the Greek advance as well as the broader breakout attempt from the Anzio bridgehead. By the time Lucas had finally attacked there where 81,000 Allied soldiers ashore but he had given Kesserling sufficient time to move over 71,000 men to contain the bridgehead...
Meanwhile, average Bulgarians with access to maps are probably asking why their “glorious victories” are occurring closer and closer to their country.
I'd be curious to hear about an Armenian perspective of this. Like what the Armenians are doing here and any thoughts they're having.
So basically the Turkish navy has ceased of exist as such...
Seem that in case to choose/opt for one war front after other that the decision would be a matter of Stalin political-military priorities rather than purely military/logistical considerations...
Yeah and that's a good thing for the Greeks and Wallies. The beginning of the end for Turkey is near...
Tbf I think Stalin will attempt all three at the expense of getting any breakthroughs. Finland and Germany will fight (especially Germany considering what the soviets would do) and turkey's land is much less developed.
I do think the situation in Italy considering that the allies have a lot more forces from the rebels and that the Greeks are able to land forces there means that Italy should crumble a lot earlier than otl. Idk how it changes things especially in places like Istria but if the Italian front ends much earlier I think we'll see the troops being used in the Balkans and Northern France which should make more of Europe American allies by the end of WWII.
@Lascaris Did Floyd Pinkerton/Roger Waters father die at Anzio ITTL? Specifically, were the Royal Fusiliers, Company C involved and if they were did they take significant losses?
"When The Tigers Broke Free" is one of my favorite Pink Floyd songs and it would be a shame if it didn't get to exist (Roger Waters happiness be damned, I regret nothing <_<')
"When The Tigers Broke Free" is one of my favorite Pink Floyd songs and it would be a shame if it didn't get to exist (Roger Waters happiness be damned, I regret nothing <_<')
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Yes, the destruction of the Turkish navy (though not total), does mean that the Sea of Marmara is less secure than before. That said in 1915, the Ottoman Navy was not that much stronger either.
Tbf the fact that the American navy is also somewhat present means that more of the British and French navy could be in theatre and making things worse.
Oh bummer!
The alt-Adrias is sunk. I guess the ship couldn't have been that lucky in both timelines. Was Aigaion captained by Toumpas as in OTL ?
That's an important minor development. With the Allies holding Cisterna, Operation Diadem has become a somewhat easier and less bloody affair.
Averof so far has fought 4 battles against the Ottoman and Turkish Navies and during all of them Lemnos was the main base. I think it would be only fair that when Uncle George is turned into a museum, he should be in Moudros Bay.
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Old uncle George (for the non-Greek readers, the nickname of Averof by its crew) strikes again! If IOTL it was named "devil ship" by the Turks, I can't imagine how it will be called ITTL !
From a political-military scope, knocking Turkey out of the war makes more sense. Acquiring the promised bases in the Straits is smt no Russian/Soviet government has ever achieved before.
A more successful Battle_of_Cisterna ITTL with the Greek Army as a main protagonist! Skouras is going to turn this into a major propaganda coup !
Too early to be King Tiger and the OTL Lowe never the left the drawing board for good reasons.
The Soviets probably don’t have enough resources to fight all three of these successfully, so it’s going to be interesting to see whether they fight all three with bad results or if they decide to let one front sit. My personal bet is the Finnish front goes on the back burner. I could even see the Soviets agreeing to Status Quo Ante Bellum so they could focus on the more important fronts with Germany and Turkey.