Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

The Greeks are going to want to drive to Constantinople and establish new facts on the ground and the British will he happy to support them.
Hardly feasible while Bulgaria is still in the fight, lest they be flanked from the north while going through Thrace, or from Smyrna while the Turkish army remains a fighting force south of the Straits.
 
Hardly feasible while Bulgaria is still in the fight, lest they be flanked from the north while going through Thrace, or from Smyrna while the Turkish army remains a fighting force south of the Straits.
Oh, they'll need to smash the Bulgarian army first but once that is done there is only one objective the Greeks will care about and the whole world desires it.
 
On a side note, was there in the Greek army any honorific rank akin to the dignity of Marshal in the French Army at the time ? I ask because I thought Pangalos, on the merit of his success in organizing Greece' defense and making it the first country on mainland Europe to beat off the Axis onslaught, ought to have some kind of distinction of this kind.
 
On a side note, was there in the Greek army any honorific rank akin to the dignity of Marshal in the French Army at the time ? I ask because I thought Pangalos, on the merit of his success in organizing Greece' defense and making it the first country on mainland Europe to beat off the Axis onslaught, ought to have some kind of distinction of this kind.
IOTL Genaral Alexandros Papagos was awarded the rank of Field Marshal (Stratarches, Στρατάρχης in Greek) in October 1949, after the end of the Greek Civil War. The title was awarded also to some reigning monarchs in modern Greek history.
 
So, similar to the tier V premium MT in WOT?
I wouldn't have the slightest idea. That's the tank... sans autoloder and with the Panzer IV gun. https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-germany-czechoslovak-skoda-t25/

Seeing Greece taking over all of its Northern territory is always a good thing! The Balkans is being taken back from the Axis, which is always a good thing, and Greece's full liberation is soon right? It's just everything East of Epirus right?

Also how will the Wallies get into occupied Yugoslavia? Considering they should be nearing the border are we just getting the Royal Yugoslavian forces to get to attack in conjunction with Greek and other Wallies forces? I'm really interested in how Yugoslavia is united, it'd be an interesting situation as we'd get communist and royalist forces starting to interact with each other.
The Yugaslavs have 125,000 men in the frontline with more in the rear that when the equipment becomes available could allow further expansion.
Finally Albania will always be a hard place to control, with all powerful political groups being broadly anti-western. Hopefully the Wallies can figure out something.
To be a cynic it's of relatively limited interest to the great powers...

Hometown liberated!!! Nice!
The Germans have used the mountains as the Greeks did on their defense. Even with a breakthrough there is always another mountain or another river nearby to consolidate. Only attrition though airstrikes will make a difference and fast movements on the Macedonia plains which are quite close. Partizan presence on the outskirts of Thessalonike is very interesting to be honest especially with the whole moving the Jews out thing going on. Maybe some are saved, maybe heavy repercussions fall on the local residents. Either way it will make a German holdout on the city quite unlikely.
As hinted the Germans have finished with deporting the Jewish populations of Constantinople, East Macedonia and Thrace by late August and have not turned their attentions to Thessaloniki. The only good thing is that since the Allies are bombing hell out the railroads, as of the start of September the Allied air forces in the Near East (Soviets included) our outnumbering the Axis 3 to 2 in the air... not counting the American 15th Air Force, the Germans cannot make deportations as fast as OTL.

While.I would suppose, that the current Allied Axis of Advance, both in Macedon, that would guess that'd continue pushing towards the upper Vardar river Valley and to take/control (actual) Skopje. And the ongoing to clean and control Albania, prioritising,(guess so) its Adriatic coast ports and both would have as last goal to reach the Yugoslavian border and link up directly with the Montenegrins and Serbians resistance groups.
Perhaps somewhat ironically the Allies are in the same dilemma with the Greek army in 1912. Advance to Monastir or Thessaloniki? Of course where the Greeks in 1912 had 7 divisions in the Army of Thessaly, the Allied Armies of the Orient have 21...

Yeah, it would be the best option, but as shown TTL Ionian front, it, IMO, would be needed more manpower and firepower than the one actually available there.


Per OTL. It would seem so, but aside that'd be possible that ITTL changes could have caused, at least 'partially butterflying' it.
I tend to think that, even if TTL Bulgarians, would want to follow a similar path to their OTL counterparts. It, still would be left open the question if the Germans would allow it; if ITTL, it would mean to effectively write off the Entire Turkey/Caucasus Front along with all the German forces still fighting there with their Turks allies.
There is this minor problem for the Bulgarians that they have given the Greeks and Serbs every reason to hate their guts in the past few years...
I could see the Bulgarians following the Italians in having a lot more preparation on the various armies, and especially if the Wallies are also disrupting Axis lines in Yugoslavia the Germans would have too much on their plate. It really depends on what the Wallies do.
The Bulgarians may well want to switch sides, preferably keeping at least some of their gains while at it. But they have been much more heavily committed in the war than OTL, the Greeks will be looking for blood, with good reason from their point of view given the occupation of the Greek north. Only this time they have the fourth largest Allied army in existence, and a lot of political capital in Allied capitals. And to make things worse given the much more active Bulgarian participation i the war, the Bulgarian government is even more pervaded by German influence.

The Greeks are going to want to drive to Constantinople and establish new facts on the ground and the British will he happy to support them.
The Greeks certainly want Contastantinople. How to get there is a different question. And the Greek's army operations are part of the general Allied planning they are not acting entirely on their own.
On a side note, was there in the Greek army any honorific rank akin to the dignity of Marshal in the French Army at the time ? I ask because I thought Pangalos, on the merit of his success in organizing Greece' defense and making it the first country on mainland Europe to beat off the Axis onslaught, ought to have some kind of distinction of this kind.
Constantine I being made a field marshal predates the POD, it happened in 1914. Now politics over making Pangalos a field marshal with the word still ongoing are likely more complicated, including the Pangalos since 1917 had been Venizelos strong arm within the army. Admittedly the OTL stratocracy of the 20s with officers launching coup's every second week have been mostly avoided, not least due to Venizelos holding an iron grip on power and the political class retaining her legitimacy thanks to victory, but still it's doubtful Dragoumis and Kafandaris would much want to see Pangalos with even more influence, at least with the war going on.
 
To be a cynic it's of relatively limited interest to the great powers...
tbf yeah. I could see the USSR trying to spread its influence into albania, but only if the Chetniks faill miserably I don't see them being connected to the USSR in any way.
There is this minor problem for the Bulgarians that they have given the Greeks and Serbs every reason to hate their guts in the past few years...
I think the Serbians and Greeks can't really punish the Bulgarians too much. Like other than minor adjustments there can't be too much adjustments, and I don't think the Americans would allow Greece to take northern Thrace for example.
As hinted the Germans have finished with deporting the Jewish populations of Constantinople, East Macedonia and Thrace by late August and have not turned their attentions to Thessaloniki. The only good thing is that since the Allies are bombing hell out the railroads, as of the start of September the Allied air forces in the Near East (Soviets included) our outnumbering the Axis 3 to 2 in the air... not counting the American 15th Air Force, the Germans cannot make deportations as fast as OTL.
I hope thessaloniki keeps its jewish population ittl, and considering that the Wallies are around that area I don't think the Axis would have the time and resources to eradicate the jewish population when the WAllies are knocking at their door.
The Bulgarians may well want to switch sides, preferably keeping at least some of their gains while at it. But they have been much more heavily committed in the war than OTL, the Greeks will be looking for blood, with good reason from their point of view given the occupation of the Greek north. Only this time they have the fourth largest Allied army in existence, and a lot of political capital in Allied capitals. And to make things worse given the much more active Bulgarian participation i the war, the Bulgarian government is even more pervaded by German influence.
I don't think the Bulgars would be able to keep anything, and they'd know it. Both the Americans and Soviets won't be allowing the Bulgarians to retain any of their gains.
The Greeks certainly want Contastantinople. How to get there is a different question. And the Greek's army operations are part of the general Allied planning they are not acting entirely on their own.
I think the Americans won't allow Constantinople to fall to Russian hands tho and that's the main thing that'll arouse the WAllies to get to constantinople: at least get it before the Russians.
 
Part 130
Ergani, South Eastern Anatolia, September 17th, 1943

Slim's soldiers pushed the German defenders out of the town. Further west Adiyaman would fall to the French the same day. The Allied advance continued.

Berlin, September 18th, 1943

Back in February it had been decided to build Fiat's G.55 and G.56 in German plants. A variety of delays had frustrated progress of the project, not least Messerschmitt doing anything they could behind the scenes to reverse the decision. Finally with the surrender of Italy Göring and Wever had given up of the effort. FIAT's factories in occupied Italy would continue and if possible expand production but German factories would continue to churn out Bf109s and FW190s to contest the growing numbers of Allied aircraft striking at Germany and German occupied Europe.

Russia, September 19th, 1943


The offensive of the Soviet West and Kalinin fronts had begun in early August. By now the German defenses were effectively collapsing with a 250km long, 40 km wide gap created on German lines. Soviet forces pushed on to Smolensk.

Platamon, September 19th, 1943

Salamis, the cruisers Lemnos, Averof, Duquesne and Suffren and a dozen destroyers turned the coast between Messangala and Platamon into a blazing inferno as the 1st and 7th Infantry regiments of the Greek II Infantry Division under Euripidis Bakitzis took the beaches under their cover. Compared to other Allied amphibious operations it was probably relatively insignificant, only aiming to turn the Bulgarian positions in the Olympus. For the Bulgarian forces defending the Tempi valley it threatened to be a disaster. The commander of the Bulgarian 1st Army at Katerini would order the 1st and 2nd Cavalry Divisions south to attack the beachhead. But this in turn exposed the Bulgarian units trying to advance to the beachhead over the to the full power of Allied naval firepower.

Palaiokastron (Balikesir), September 20th, 1943

The Greek 17th Infantry Regiment marched through the town in the dead of night on its way back to the front after a brief respite to reorganize and take in replacements. Palaiokastro had been liberated, or reconquered if you looked it from the Turkish side a week earlier but was still in range of Turkish artillery and Turkish resistance was increasingly stiffening. That the Allies were throwing nearly all reinforcements to the fight in Macedonia certainly wasn't helping much the efforts of the Army of Asia Minor.

Cilicia, September 21st, 1943


Mordechai Anielewicz, led a battalion of the 2nd Jewish Infantry brigade into Adana. The Morrocans had finally managed to clear the passed into Cilicia and now the French Armee d' Orient, with the two Jewish brigades attached to it, rumours claimed to avoid tensions with the Arab Legion fighting directly under Slim, but this was questionable given the high proportion of North African Arabs and Lebanese in the French forces, was fast advancing into the Cilician plain. Anielewicz who had escaped Poland back in 1939 had fast advanced through the ranks despite being only 24 years old.

Tempi valley, September 24th, 1943


The remnants of the 7th Bulgarian Infantry divisions, cutoff since the Allied landings five days later surrendered. The road to Pieria was now open. Further west Ptolemais had fallen to the New Zealanders and the battles for Vermion continued to increase in intensity as more Allied divisions entered the fray...

Smolensk, September 25th, 1943

The city was liberated by the Soviet army. The offensive would come to a halt a week later, with Soviet casualties exceeded 450,000 men but the German threat to Moscow had been removed for good and 55 German divisions had been tied down at the very time an even more massive Soviet offensive was mauling the Germans and Romanians in Ukraine...

Leninakan, September 25th, 1943


The Turkish 3rd Army had been starved of reinforcements and even had to transfer units to other fronts, including the transfer of its German divisions to Macedonia. After all it appeared the Soviet Transcaucasus Front was in no position to attack and the Turkish 3rd Army was well to the east of the border. That the Soviets had in effect turned down Turkish attempts at negotiation, or rather had responded to the secret attempts of the Turks to sound them of in Switzerland with demands that looked unacceptable to the Turks should had been perhaps a hint of Soviet intentions. But the front had remained quiet, and the transfer of nearly 140,000 men from the Soviet Far East had gone unnoticed. Now the quiet in the front abruptly ended as Vladimir Triandafillov unleashed 322,000 men with 650 tanks on Fahrettin's army...
 
Cilicia, September 21st, 1943

Mordechai Anielewicz, led a battalion of the 2nd Jewish Infantry brigade into Adana. The Morrocans had finally managed to clear the passed into Cilicia and now the French Armee d' Orient, with the two Jewish brigades attached to it, rumours claimed to avoid tensions with the Arab Legion fighting directly under Slim, but this was questionable given the high proportion of North African Arabs and Lebanese in the French forces, was fast advancing into the Cilician plain. Anielewicz who had escaped Poland back in 1939 had fast advanced through the ranks despite being only 24 years old.
With how he had been able to flee Poland ITTL, who led the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (or a similar event) here?
 
Tempi valley, September 24th, 1943

The remnants of the 7th Bulgarian Infantry divisions, cutoff since the Allied landings five days later surrendered. The road to Pieria was now open. Further west Ptolemais had fallen to the New Zealanders and the battles for Vermion continued to increase in intensity as more Allied divisions entered the fray...
Soon the allies are going to liberate Katerini and after that the road to Thessaloniki will be open (if I remember correct the swampy Giannitsa lake has been drained ITTL). After that, the frontlines will probably resemble smt like the Macedonian Front from WWI.
 
Cilicia, September 21st, 1943

Mordechai Anielewicz, led a battalion of the 2nd Jewish Infantry brigade into Adana. The Morrocans had finally managed to clear the passed into Cilicia and now the French Armee d' Orient, with the two Jewish brigades attached to it, rumours claimed to avoid tensions with the Arab Legion fighting directly under Slim, but this was questionable given the high proportion of North African Arabs and Lebanese in the French forces, was fast advancing into the Cilician plain. Anielewicz who had escaped Poland back in 1939 had fast advanced through the ranks despite being only 24 years old.
Interesting difference to OTL here, he will probably make Alyiah later on
With how he had been able to flee Poland ITTL, who led the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (or a similar event) here?
Likely David Menachem Applebaum, Pavel Frankel and Leo Rodal, the leaders of the Jewish Milittary Union and Marek Edelman, who probably would lead the Jewish Combat Organization in Anielewicz's absence
 
Well the Balkan and Anatolian fronts are finally moving in favour of the allies and it is a good thing fo them, and it'd make for some good propaganda!

Seeing the liberation of Thessaloniki be near is always good, and even though the liberation of Ionia is slow it will happen as the Turks eventually break down from the amount of fronts they are functioning in. The soviets not agreeing to the terms is a good thing for Greece.

Also with Mordechai in Turkey things would be very interesting. I think we'd see him become an army general in Israel proper if he survives the war Which would be very interesting.
 
Considering Italy is now a co-belligerent of the Allies, the Italian Fleet will remain Italian, though I am sure the peace treaties will include the transfer of some ships as reparations.
 
Speaking off, I wonder what this TLs "Elli II" would be (or any other name, iirc Elli was renamed ittl before being torpedoed). Hopefully something better than the old Eugenio di Savoia.
Part of me wants a full Littorio because #%@& it. But an Abruzzi is more likely and realistic. Maybe even some DDs to replace losses. And I hope the prize ship would have a better career than being scrapped a few years later.
 
With how he had been able to flee Poland ITTL, who led the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (or a similar event) here?
The ghetto uprising is actually mentioned in part 118...
Soon the allies are going to liberate Katerini and after that the road to Thessaloniki will be open (if I remember correct the swampy Giannitsa lake has been drained ITTL). After that, the frontlines will probably resemble smt like the Macedonian Front from WWI.
There are two potential lines of advance against Thessaloniki, one by way of Katerini where the modern highway and the railway go and the other through Veroia which was followed by the Greek army in the 1st Balkan war. Both need to cross the Axios river to reach Thessaloniki of course...
Interesting difference to OTL here, he will probably make Alyiah later on
In OTL he made it to the Polish-Romanian border but was arrested by the Soviets. TTL the Poles held out somewhat longer and the Soviets invaded three days later than OTL. Seems enough for Anilewicz to make it across the border ahead of the Soviets. Post that it relatively easy to make it to Constantinople along other Polish refugees. And even if he doesn't make it to Palestine from 1939, volunteering for the Jewish combat units in 1941 seems obvious...
Likely David Menachem Applebaum, Pavel Frankel and Leo Rodal, the leaders of the Jewish Milittary Union and Marek Edelman, who probably would lead the Jewish Combat Organization in Anielewicz's absence
Edelman and Yitzak Zuckerman for the Jewish Combat Organization yes.
What will the Allies do with the Italian Fleet? Will they be interned like OTL, or will they have a more active rule in the war?
In OTL Italia and Vittorio Veneto were interned in the Great Bitter Lake, smaller ships operated with the Co-belligerent navy. TTL the Italian fleet has suffered heavier casualties than OTL not just in heavy warships but also among light ships...
Considering Italy is now a co-belligerent of the Allies, the Italian Fleet will remain Italian, though I am sure the peace treaties will include the transfer of some ships as reparations.
The Soviets in OTL demanded a third of the Italian feet, HMS Royal Sovereign was loaned to the Soviets till they could receive their share of Italian war reperations. TTL almost certainly the Soviets will be making similar demands. If they are handled any different than OTL or the have to wait for the peace treaty remains to be seen.
Speaking off, I wonder what this TLs "Elli II" would be (or any other name, iirc Elli was renamed ittl before being torpedoed). Hopefully something better than the old Eugenio di Savoia.
Part of me wants a full Littorio because #%@& it. But an Abruzzi is more likely and realistic. Maybe even some DDs to replace losses. And I hope the prize ship would have a better career than being scrapped a few years later.
It depends. Most likely the Greeks, French and Soviets will be getting something in reparations from the Italian navy, with the Greeks getting the smallest reparations from all three. What would be best for the HN? The battleships and Aquila are out of the question. As far as cruisers go an option not present in OTL might be the hulls of the three heavy cruisers the Italians laid down in 1939 TTL... assuming they survive the war. Destroyers... the Greek navy will have a lot at the end of the war, they are suffering heavy casualties but by 1943 are also receiving large numbers of ships as British war aid. In OTL the Italians had proposed to Greece to exchange 4 destroyers for Eugenio di Savoia apparently. Of course Eugenio di Savoia went in place of a Crown Colony class the Greeks wanted and probably would be much more serviceable given the entire Greek navy consisted of British and America ships and British trained crews...
 
Appendix Post-Armistice Italian Navy
  • Aircraft Carriers: 1
    • Aquila class: 1 (Aquila)
  • Battleships: 4
    • Littorio class: 2 (Italia, Roma)
    • Cavour class: 1 (Giulio Cesare)
    • Andrea Doria class: 1 (Duilio)
  • Cruisers: 8
    • Abruzzi class: 2 (Abruzzi, Garibaldi)
    • Aosta class: 2 (Aosta, Eugenio di Savoia)
    • Capitani Romani: 4 (Regolo, Pompeo, Scipione Africano, Traiano)
  • Destroyers: 9
    • Soldati class: 7
    • Oriani class: 1
    • Maestrale class: 1
  • Torpedo Boats: 22
    • Pilo class: 3
    • La Masa class: 2
    • Spica class: 7
    • Orsa class: 2
    • Ciclone class: 7
    • Ariete class: 1
  • Submarines: 21
    • Bandiera class: 1
    • Squalo class: 1
    • Bragadin class: 2
    • Settembrini class: 1
    • Argonauta class: 1
    • Sirena class: 1
    • Glauco class: 1
    • Perta class: 3
    • Adua class: 1
    • Foca class: 1
    • Marcello class: 1
    • Brin class: 1
    • Cagni class: 1
    • Acciaio class: 3
    • Flutto class: 2
 
Part 131
Veroia, September 30th, 1943

The 10th Panzer division retreated from the town, with the tanks of Sokratis Demaratos 2nd Armoured Cavalry division closely behind it. The Greek 1st and the Yugoslav 3rd Armies had now broken through both mount Vermion and the Olympus, Katerini had been liberated two days ago, and where converging on Thessaloniki just as the British 10th army under Oliver Leese pushed north towards Monastir.

Giannitsa, October 2nd, 1943


Battle was joined in earnest as the Germans and Bulgariams tried to hold back the Allies at the Loudias river. They would inflict yet more casualties and delays on the advancing Allies, but fail to hold them back.

South-Eastern Anatolia, October 3rd, 1943


The British and French advance finally run out of steam. In ten weeks of fighting the Allies had lost 27,000 men and advanced over 170km. But it wasn't so much the ground as it was the over 100,000 casualties inflicted on the Turks and the Germans and the strategically important chrome mines taken by the Allies during the battle.

Thessaloniki, October 4th, 1943

The thunder of the guns could be heard at the distance. And no matter what the German radio was saying it was clear that Von Weichs was failing to hold back the Allies. Which was leaving one Alois Brunner increasingly agitated. He had begun the deportation of Thessaloniki's Jews nearly 6 weeks ago, the first train leaving for Poland in August 22nd. The Bulgarian occupation authorities had done nothing to stop him, the Bulgarian government was protecting the Jewish population in "Old Bulgaria" but had left the Jews of "New Bulgaria", the occupied Thrace and Macedonia to the Germans mercy. But the ongoing Allied offensive had drastically reduced the rate of shipments and it looked as if he would be forced out of the city before he would finish his mission which would not do. Einzatzgruppe and the units of the 4th SS "Polizei" division in the city were ordered to begin massacring the Jewish population on the spot.

Eptapyrgion prison, Thessaloniki, October 5th, 1943


Two hundred Greek prisoners, were brought out of the cells and executed. The Bulgarian occupation had been brutal at the best of times, particularly after the Greek resistance had blown up king Boris III, and the fight with the resistance had been one with little quarter given by either side. Now with the threat of losing Thessaloniki coming closer every day, the occupation authorities had no intention of letting any "terrorists" get away.

Kalamaria ghetto, Thessaloniki, October 6th, 1943


Back in the summer the Germans had penned nearly 50,000 Jews into three ghettos at Kalamaria, Syggrou and Vardar. Out of the 56,913 Jews the Greek census of 1940 had returned almost 5,000 had been serving with the Greek army when the city had been occupied. some had starved in the winter of 1941-42 but the majority had been rounded up by the Germans with little to no opposition. A sizeable part of the men of fighting age being away, arch-rabbi Zvi Koretz being weak and disdainful of the resistance and most of the Christian population being indifferent and more concerned with the Bulgarian occupation had seen to that. But there were limits. News the Germans had begun massacring the Vardar ghetto and the sound of the guns out west had proven a potent combination. Greek flags and Magen Davids both anathema in occupied Thessaloniki rose up as the Kalamaria ghetto rose up in revolt.

Occupied Armenia, October 6th, 1943


For the past twelve days the Soviets were tenaciously attacking. And while Fahrettin's soldiers were fighting back just as tenaciously they were getting drowned under piles of men and material losing ground for all their mounting casualties. Fevzi Cakmak had already ordered the German XXX Corps, much reduced from the fighting against the French and British to the Caucasus front as soon as the Allied advance in the south halted...


Demokratias avenue, Thessaloniki, October 6th, 1943.

A small select team of men, had met in the small house. Ares Makedon was getting exasperated.

"There is nothing to debate. The Huns are out on a rampage, the Bulgarians are mass executing hostages, the Jews of Kalamaria, the very ones your rag of a paper accused of being pro-Bulgarian like us communists I note", he said acidly pointing to another man on the table, a journalist of the closed down Makedonia newspaper.

"This was that bastard Fardis not the paper, the man weakly countered but Ares was not stopping

"The have raised the Greek flag and revolted, and you want us to stay idle and wait for the army to fight its way to the city without lifting a finger to help them! Lest property gets damaged! To hell with property! My men are rising up tonight. On our own if we have to."

Pavlos Gyparis raised an eyebrow at this. "Oh no, you are not rising on your own. Ares, is correct, the Forces of the interior are rising tonight. Major Tsigantes, you'll inform Athens and request immediate help. I think everyone agrees is this not so?"

Some people visibly flinched when they met the eyes of the two warlords. Perhaps rising up against the Germans and the Bulgarians would be easier after all...

Thessaloniki, October 7th, 1943


The city erupted in explosions followed by the den of machine guns and small arms as LAS and EOEA guerillas attacked the Germans and Bulgarians under the cover of night. By dawn Thessaloniki was in all out revolt...
 
Top