How would Russian history be any different if, instead of Muscovy (and its predecessors, Rostov-Suzdal and Vladimir-Suzdal) being the principality which began the Tsardom and growing to conquer its neighbouring principalities, not to mention seen as the "cradle" of Russian culture, the Novgorod Republic instead was strong and powerful enough to take on that role? Would Russian society be any different if it was the Novgorod Republic that was the core of this Russian state instead of Muscovy? Would the veche take on as major of a role as the States-General in the Netherlands or Alþingi in Iceland, as comparable examples? How would that also affect the development of the Russian language if (Old) Novgorodian, not the Moscow dialect, served as the basis for Russian in TTL?
Novgorod Republic instead of Muscovy as the major Russian state?
- Thread starter Dan1988
- Start date
This is kind of difficult because (as far as I'm aware from my moderate knowledge of medieval Russians), the Novgorod Republic was not only one of the least populated of the Russian Principalities, but it also relied heavily on trade across the Baltic which was the major cause behind its decline and eventual collapse at the hands of the Muscovites, as a lot of trade was lost after Novgorod failed to prevent their resources being lost to Moscow.
I think the best way to keep Novgorod alive is to have them win these wars, which would require better strategists. However, this would merely keep Novgorod independent, and wouldn't make them the dominant Russian state. One way to make Novgorod the dominant state is (my favoured method) of halting the Mongol expansion into the Russian Principalities.
If Kiev never falls, then Novgorod can certainly have a shot at dominating the northern portion of Russia, though perhaps not OTL Belarus and Ukraine. This is because Moscow will essentially be butterflied away, and I don't really see any of the other Russian principalities having a great chance of overtaking Novgorod (except of course Kiev, which would as I said probably dominate the south whilst Novgorod dominated the north).
Hope I've helped!
I think the best way to keep Novgorod alive is to have them win these wars, which would require better strategists. However, this would merely keep Novgorod independent, and wouldn't make them the dominant Russian state. One way to make Novgorod the dominant state is (my favoured method) of halting the Mongol expansion into the Russian Principalities.
If Kiev never falls, then Novgorod can certainly have a shot at dominating the northern portion of Russia, though perhaps not OTL Belarus and Ukraine. This is because Moscow will essentially be butterflied away, and I don't really see any of the other Russian principalities having a great chance of overtaking Novgorod (except of course Kiev, which would as I said probably dominate the south whilst Novgorod dominated the north).
Hope I've helped!
Ultimate Paragon
Banned
Well, if my sources about the Republic are accurate, it might mean that Russia would have a greater tradition of democracy.
dead_wolf
Banned
"Democracy." Novgorod's republican system is interesting, but it's certainly not democratic or really comparable to any form of modern governance we'd be comfortable living under.
dead_wolf
Banned
Granted, but then again modern liberal democracy didn't evolve out of the medieval republican states either.
From what I can tell, though, Novgorod's veche was similar in operation to the old pre-Napoleonic States-General in the Dutch Republic. Which also wasn't necessarily democratic either, but it was a start in the case of the Netherlands, and probably also in a surviving Novgorod had it been the founder and unifier of Russia in TTL.
The American system was based on a mixture of influences from the Iroquois mixed with alot of borrowings and systems based on Rome and the later Italian Republics.
Modern Liberal Democracy did not evolve from any one thing, but the historic European Republics did play a major part in its development.
I've come to like the idea (which, full exclosure, I'm using in a sorta-kinda TL) of Novgorod reforming gradually, while the others fight amongs themselves and others, gradually expanding into areas that are useful, but not to troublesome and eventually just forming a sort of Confederation in which it retains its individuality and structure while also getting to be the Top dog in a Confederal system that benefits it.