No GNW (or “Peter goes South”)
- Thread starter alexmilman
- Start date
Fist for justice and harmony #3
329. Fist for justice and harmony #3
Tientsin, June 1900
By the early June situation in the city was scary for the Europeans. Chinese servants who served foreigners, Chinese cooks, tailors, laundries and gables who worked for Europeans run away. It was impossible to order a single suit in the city, as everything was sewn by the Chinese. You couldn’t fix the watch even in the European watch shops, because their workers were the Chinese. Washing laundry presented the greatest difficulties, as the Chinese were doing washing. One had to walk around the city because there is nothing to ride. Tientsin’s gentlemen and ladies have to not only cook lunches themselves, serve them on the table, but also clean their boots and appartments themselves, go everywhere themselves, as all the servants were Chinese and there was no one to send.The kingdom of gentlemen, luxury and comfort in Tianjin was over and the Robinson kingdom had been coming.
On June 1st [1] at 11PM the shooting started: the soldiers guarding railroad station saw the approaching column with the red lanterns, a sure sign of the boxers, and opened fire forcing them to disperse. The next night a large scale attack had been launched. The Boxers put the French Catholic Cathedral on fire and killed all Christian Chinese who lived nearby. However, their first attack on the railroad station was repelled. Anisimov with three companies left by train at night to rescue the 3rd company, which stood at the outpost in Junliangcheng.
On June 4th the telegram arrived informing that the Taku Forts had bee taken by the allies. On the same day, June 4, after learning of the fall of the Taku Forts, Prince Duan, having taken over the supreme power in Pekin, ordered boxers and Chinese troops in Tientsin to start a war with foreigners. At 2:50 p.m., Chinese artillery began bombarding foreign concessions and Colonel Anisimov's detachment. This was much more serious than the previous boxer attacks: they were annoying but after few salvos the attackers tended to disperse. Now, the defenders had to deal with the numerous troops well armed with the modern weapons and trained by the European officers.
The main attack was on the railroad station and had been carried by approximately 2,000 regular troops supported by 14 artillery pieces. Initially, station was defended by 4 Russian infantry companies with 2 field guns and the British Hotchkiss gun. Then two Russian and two British guns had been brought to the station.
The Chinese rifle and artillery fire proved to be quite effective causing considerable losses: the forward placed company lost one by one 3 commanders and 1 Russian and 1 British gun had been silenced. 30 Japanese came to help and had been fighting well losing both their officers and half of their soldiers after which the rest of them joined one of the Russian companies and their position was taken by the French.
The Germans and Brits joined the fight so all reserves were exhausted while Chinese kept attacking the station and already were within 200 steps from it when, in the best Hollywood tradition train with Anisimov and his troops arrived [2] and in “Skobelev-style” [3] counterattack put Chinese to flight: he did not reach his destination when heard cannonade at his rear, decided that saving of the city is a top priority and turned back,
Later this day the Brits and Germans surrounded Chinese Military School and took it by an assault. There were 300 students in this school. Many of them escaped but quite a few died fighting. This was the first and last group of the young well educated Chinese officers.
On Tuesday, June 6, the Russians, together with the British, went to take two Chinese guns placed on the city rampart at its intersection with the railway going to Tonka. 200 English sailors from Barfler, under the command of Captain Beatty, [4] boldly rushed forward at guns aimed at European concessions, but could not withstand crossfire and were forced to retreat. When the Russians arrived, the Chinese removed both guns from the rampart and left for a while. Then at this place the Chinese put a large 6-inch siege gun, which hit the European city day and night and frightened the besieged by their deafening shots and prolonged howl of grenades. The British suffered in this case. Brave Captain Beatty was wounded twice, but continued to command his men until the last opportunity.
By that time the garrison of Tientsin consisted of [5]:
Residents of the concessions, caught by the siege, mostly abandoned their homes in confusion and despair and took refuge in the cellars of the English municipality of Gordon-Hall, located on Victoria Road. All European women also gathered here. Food was prepared for them at the neighboring Astor-House hotel.
Situation was very serious and on June 5 Monnier, a mechanical engineer from the cruiser D'Entrecasteaux, went by boat along the Peijo River to Tonka to report the plight of Europeans besieged in Tientsin. He managed to safely slip through the Chinese outposts along the banks of Peiho at night. On June 6 Anisimov sent to Tonka three Cossacks with an Englishman who lived in Tientsin few years, knew area well and was a good horseman, serving as a giude. They also reached the destination and delivered Anisimov’s report.
Chinese had up to 7,000 regular troops and over 10,000 boxers. With few big arsenals near the city, they had practically unlimited supply of the modern weapons and ammunition provided prior to the rebellion by the Brits and Germans which allowed to conduct a bombardment pretty much around the clock. To be more precise, on schedule: they were making precise breaks for food thus allowing the defenders to relax as well. The cannonade was starting early in the morning and at 8AM “they take their first break to drink tea and eat rice choke. Having refreshed themselves, they open fire again. At noon, all Chinese batteries and chains of shooters fall silent, as at noon every decent Chinese should have lunch, eat fried or boiled pork, vegetables, onion laspee and rice porridge. After smoking a pipe in the afternoon, a Chinese soldier goes to bed for two hours. At 3 o'clock, shooting begins again, which continues until dusk. In the evening, the Chinese have dinner, eat pancakes or dumplings with onions and bacon, after which they rest. Around midnight, they open fire again for a few hours and want to exhaust the small defending garrison with unexpected sorties and unceasing daily and night shooting.”
Luckily for the defenders, the Chinese did not have the mortars and high-explosive bombs or they would completely destroy the concessions. To counter the enemy’s attack the defenders kept building ad hoc fortifications and barricades putting in charge young American mining engineer Herbert Hoover who organized a construction crew out of the “anti-boxer” Chinese. Besides building the barricades he saw to the operation of the water purification plant, which was extremely important due to the bad quality of the river’s water. His wife was helping in a hospital and later posed for a historical photo.
Situation was aggravated by the fact that the active siege started rather unexpectedly and plenty Chinese had been still living in the concessions. Most of them were from the groups who had all reasons to be afraid of the Boxers but there were also quite a few Boxers’ supporters passing information to the besiegers. To at least somewhat diminish this problem the telephone and telegraph lines going to the Chinese part of the city had been cut leaving the fifth column with a more risky option of signaling with flags from the buildings’ roofs.
Fortunately for the defenders, all Chinese efforts had been concentrated on taking the railroad station, which allowed to concentrate most of the limited resources on a single point of the defensive perimeter. Still, the situation was getting from bad to worse with the casualties mounting and amounts of ammunition shrinking.
Finally, on June 10 one of the Cossacks sent to Tonka returned with information that the reinforcements are coming, the rest of brigade to which Anisimov’s regiment belonged marched to the rescue under command of the brigade commander, general Stessel. Two companies of Anisimov’s regiments attacked the rampart, took the Chinese 6 inch gun and got possession of the gates and a big part of the rampart. From this position they could see their comrades marching.
________
[1] As long as I stuck with defense of Tientsin and related OTL events, I also stuck with the Julian calendar, which is 13 days behind its corresponding Gregorian date: 1st is actually 14th, etc. This will minimize risk of me forgetting to convert some date and getting comments about confusing sequence of the events.
[2] It is not me, it was Russian journalist present in Tientsin reporting. Actually, he was wounded and in a hospital so he reported what he was told by the officers present at the event. Can’t comment upon reluability of their stories and accuracy of his reporting but the first western movie had been only in 1903, three years after the described event. 😜
[3] This was a highest compliment that Russian officer of that time could receive. It meant to quickly assess the situation and attack with a maximum speed and energy.
[4] In 1900 he was a little bit older than on a photo below but, judging by his style in 1900 and 1916, the age was almost immaterial and as a child he looked cute. 😂
[5] This is more than a little bit confusing: the author of the source starts with an attack of 200 Brits and couple pages later their number shrinks to slightly over hundred. Probably even Beatty could not achieve such an impressive death rate in a single attack. Well, OTOH, nobody should underestimate his talent either. More or less the same, but reverse, with the Japanese: there were 30 of them and they suffered almost 50% casualties (not necessarily all dead) and then there is still 30 of them. Maybe, unlike the Boxers, they could do resurrection trick?
When at last all the Foreign Devils
Are expelled to the very last man
The Great Qing, united, together
Will bring peace to this our land.”
Boxer poem, 1900
“My blood runs cold at the thoughts of events to come. Under any enlightened sovereign these Boxers – with their ridiculous claims to supernatural powers – would have assuredly been condemned to death long ago… Your Majesties are still in the hands of traitors, regarding these Boxers as your dutiful subjects.”
Li Hongzhang
“Issue a decree to all provincial chiefs telling them they are to encourage the gentry and the people… to burn foreign churches, loot foreign goods, kill foreign merchants and sink foreign ships.”
Prince Chun’s advice to Dowager Empress Cixi, 1900
“He was loading the gun and singing a song.
A shell tore his head off
But he kept loading the gun and singing a song.”
Gasheck, ‘The good soldier Schweik’
Are expelled to the very last man
The Great Qing, united, together
Will bring peace to this our land.”
Boxer poem, 1900
“My blood runs cold at the thoughts of events to come. Under any enlightened sovereign these Boxers – with their ridiculous claims to supernatural powers – would have assuredly been condemned to death long ago… Your Majesties are still in the hands of traitors, regarding these Boxers as your dutiful subjects.”
Li Hongzhang
“Issue a decree to all provincial chiefs telling them they are to encourage the gentry and the people… to burn foreign churches, loot foreign goods, kill foreign merchants and sink foreign ships.”
Prince Chun’s advice to Dowager Empress Cixi, 1900
“He was loading the gun and singing a song.
A shell tore his head off
But he kept loading the gun and singing a song.”
Gasheck, ‘The good soldier Schweik’
Tientsin, June 1900
By the early June situation in the city was scary for the Europeans. Chinese servants who served foreigners, Chinese cooks, tailors, laundries and gables who worked for Europeans run away. It was impossible to order a single suit in the city, as everything was sewn by the Chinese. You couldn’t fix the watch even in the European watch shops, because their workers were the Chinese. Washing laundry presented the greatest difficulties, as the Chinese were doing washing. One had to walk around the city because there is nothing to ride. Tientsin’s gentlemen and ladies have to not only cook lunches themselves, serve them on the table, but also clean their boots and appartments themselves, go everywhere themselves, as all the servants were Chinese and there was no one to send.The kingdom of gentlemen, luxury and comfort in Tianjin was over and the Robinson kingdom had been coming.
On June 1st [1] at 11PM the shooting started: the soldiers guarding railroad station saw the approaching column with the red lanterns, a sure sign of the boxers, and opened fire forcing them to disperse. The next night a large scale attack had been launched. The Boxers put the French Catholic Cathedral on fire and killed all Christian Chinese who lived nearby. However, their first attack on the railroad station was repelled. Anisimov with three companies left by train at night to rescue the 3rd company, which stood at the outpost in Junliangcheng.
On June 4th the telegram arrived informing that the Taku Forts had bee taken by the allies. On the same day, June 4, after learning of the fall of the Taku Forts, Prince Duan, having taken over the supreme power in Pekin, ordered boxers and Chinese troops in Tientsin to start a war with foreigners. At 2:50 p.m., Chinese artillery began bombarding foreign concessions and Colonel Anisimov's detachment. This was much more serious than the previous boxer attacks: they were annoying but after few salvos the attackers tended to disperse. Now, the defenders had to deal with the numerous troops well armed with the modern weapons and trained by the European officers.
The main attack was on the railroad station and had been carried by approximately 2,000 regular troops supported by 14 artillery pieces. Initially, station was defended by 4 Russian infantry companies with 2 field guns and the British Hotchkiss gun. Then two Russian and two British guns had been brought to the station.
The Chinese rifle and artillery fire proved to be quite effective causing considerable losses: the forward placed company lost one by one 3 commanders and 1 Russian and 1 British gun had been silenced. 30 Japanese came to help and had been fighting well losing both their officers and half of their soldiers after which the rest of them joined one of the Russian companies and their position was taken by the French.
The Germans and Brits joined the fight so all reserves were exhausted while Chinese kept attacking the station and already were within 200 steps from it when, in the best Hollywood tradition train with Anisimov and his troops arrived [2] and in “Skobelev-style” [3] counterattack put Chinese to flight: he did not reach his destination when heard cannonade at his rear, decided that saving of the city is a top priority and turned back,
Later this day the Brits and Germans surrounded Chinese Military School and took it by an assault. There were 300 students in this school. Many of them escaped but quite a few died fighting. This was the first and last group of the young well educated Chinese officers.
On Tuesday, June 6, the Russians, together with the British, went to take two Chinese guns placed on the city rampart at its intersection with the railway going to Tonka. 200 English sailors from Barfler, under the command of Captain Beatty, [4] boldly rushed forward at guns aimed at European concessions, but could not withstand crossfire and were forced to retreat. When the Russians arrived, the Chinese removed both guns from the rampart and left for a while. Then at this place the Chinese put a large 6-inch siege gun, which hit the European city day and night and frightened the besieged by their deafening shots and prolonged howl of grenades. The British suffered in this case. Brave Captain Beatty was wounded twice, but continued to command his men until the last opportunity.
By that time the garrison of Tientsin consisted of [5]:
- Russians - 1,500 with 8 guns
- Brits - 122 with 4 guns (2 Hotchkiss)
- Germans - 59 with 1 gun and 3 machine guns
- French - 30 with 1 gun
- Japanese - 30
- Americans - 35
Residents of the concessions, caught by the siege, mostly abandoned their homes in confusion and despair and took refuge in the cellars of the English municipality of Gordon-Hall, located on Victoria Road. All European women also gathered here. Food was prepared for them at the neighboring Astor-House hotel.
Situation was very serious and on June 5 Monnier, a mechanical engineer from the cruiser D'Entrecasteaux, went by boat along the Peijo River to Tonka to report the plight of Europeans besieged in Tientsin. He managed to safely slip through the Chinese outposts along the banks of Peiho at night. On June 6 Anisimov sent to Tonka three Cossacks with an Englishman who lived in Tientsin few years, knew area well and was a good horseman, serving as a giude. They also reached the destination and delivered Anisimov’s report.
Chinese had up to 7,000 regular troops and over 10,000 boxers. With few big arsenals near the city, they had practically unlimited supply of the modern weapons and ammunition provided prior to the rebellion by the Brits and Germans which allowed to conduct a bombardment pretty much around the clock. To be more precise, on schedule: they were making precise breaks for food thus allowing the defenders to relax as well. The cannonade was starting early in the morning and at 8AM “they take their first break to drink tea and eat rice choke. Having refreshed themselves, they open fire again. At noon, all Chinese batteries and chains of shooters fall silent, as at noon every decent Chinese should have lunch, eat fried or boiled pork, vegetables, onion laspee and rice porridge. After smoking a pipe in the afternoon, a Chinese soldier goes to bed for two hours. At 3 o'clock, shooting begins again, which continues until dusk. In the evening, the Chinese have dinner, eat pancakes or dumplings with onions and bacon, after which they rest. Around midnight, they open fire again for a few hours and want to exhaust the small defending garrison with unexpected sorties and unceasing daily and night shooting.”
Luckily for the defenders, the Chinese did not have the mortars and high-explosive bombs or they would completely destroy the concessions. To counter the enemy’s attack the defenders kept building ad hoc fortifications and barricades putting in charge young American mining engineer Herbert Hoover who organized a construction crew out of the “anti-boxer” Chinese. Besides building the barricades he saw to the operation of the water purification plant, which was extremely important due to the bad quality of the river’s water. His wife was helping in a hospital and later posed for a historical photo.
Situation was aggravated by the fact that the active siege started rather unexpectedly and plenty Chinese had been still living in the concessions. Most of them were from the groups who had all reasons to be afraid of the Boxers but there were also quite a few Boxers’ supporters passing information to the besiegers. To at least somewhat diminish this problem the telephone and telegraph lines going to the Chinese part of the city had been cut leaving the fifth column with a more risky option of signaling with flags from the buildings’ roofs.
Fortunately for the defenders, all Chinese efforts had been concentrated on taking the railroad station, which allowed to concentrate most of the limited resources on a single point of the defensive perimeter. Still, the situation was getting from bad to worse with the casualties mounting and amounts of ammunition shrinking.
Finally, on June 10 one of the Cossacks sent to Tonka returned with information that the reinforcements are coming, the rest of brigade to which Anisimov’s regiment belonged marched to the rescue under command of the brigade commander, general Stessel. Two companies of Anisimov’s regiments attacked the rampart, took the Chinese 6 inch gun and got possession of the gates and a big part of the rampart. From this position they could see their comrades marching.
________
[1] As long as I stuck with defense of Tientsin and related OTL events, I also stuck with the Julian calendar, which is 13 days behind its corresponding Gregorian date: 1st is actually 14th, etc. This will minimize risk of me forgetting to convert some date and getting comments about confusing sequence of the events.
[2] It is not me, it was Russian journalist present in Tientsin reporting. Actually, he was wounded and in a hospital so he reported what he was told by the officers present at the event. Can’t comment upon reluability of their stories and accuracy of his reporting but the first western movie had been only in 1903, three years after the described event. 😜
[3] This was a highest compliment that Russian officer of that time could receive. It meant to quickly assess the situation and attack with a maximum speed and energy.
[4] In 1900 he was a little bit older than on a photo below but, judging by his style in 1900 and 1916, the age was almost immaterial and as a child he looked cute. 😂
[5] This is more than a little bit confusing: the author of the source starts with an attack of 200 Brits and couple pages later their number shrinks to slightly over hundred. Probably even Beatty could not achieve such an impressive death rate in a single attack. Well, OTOH, nobody should underestimate his talent either. More or less the same, but reverse, with the Japanese: there were 30 of them and they suffered almost 50% casualties (not necessarily all dead) and then there is still 30 of them. Maybe, unlike the Boxers, they could do resurrection trick?
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Things are going as well as they could go in a intervention in China.
Clearly the Japanese have learnt how to exploit the flaws in the matrix.
Fist for justice and harmony #4
330. Fist for justice and harmony #4
Taku Forts, early June 1900 [1]
Fleet of the international alliance had been hanging outside mouth of the Peiho River doing pretty much nothing besides sending, from time to time the landed troops to Tientsin and Peking from Tongku railroad station.
The big ships could not get close to the coast and the troops had been carried to the shore by the boats. Access from the shore to the railroad station had been controlled by a series of the Chinese fortifications and the same goes for getting to the station by the river using the small ships. In other words, communications with Tientsin and Pekin were at the mercy of a local military administration. Well, the allies (Brits) already controlled the railroad station and train depot but getting to it against Chinese opposition could be difficult.
The landed allied troops under command of the German officer, captain Hugo von Pohl, established bivouac near the railroad station and by the early June there were, by various estimates, between 900 and 953 soldiers and sailors in it.
On June 3rd the allied admirals met to discuss what looked as the increasingly hostile behavior of the Chinese military commander, Lo Jung-Kuang, who increased garrisons of the forts and even dared to set the mines on a river. The joint ultimatum demanded that by 2AM June 4 (17) the forts must be transferred provisionally under international control “by consent or by force”. Lo Jung-Kuang asked by telegraph instructions from the governor of Zhili Province and got an order not to cede the ports.
Superficially, ultimatum sounded as a complete lunacy because the allied flotilla could not deploy its overwhelming fire power and only few small ships could steam up the river. But was this really the case?
Forces of the sides:
The allies.For actions against Chinese fortifications were allocated:
The international detachment consisted of 350 British sailors, 329 Japanese, 140 German, 50 Austrians and 25 Italians. On the June 3 (16) 186 Russian soldiers arrived to the camp.
This is what Baranovsky landing gun looked like (below).
The Chinese.
So, the allies could concentrate an equal or greater fire power against any single fort and the forts could not efficiently support each other with a fire. Of course, the small allied ships had been lacking an armor protection but the Chinese explosives were not very effective and these ships were rather small moving targets while the forts were big, static and lacked protection against the shells fired at a high angle.
At 0:50 a.m. on June 4 (17), before the expiration of the ultimatum, the Chinese batteries opened artillery fire on Allied gunboats. The fire was carried out according to predetermined targets, but the Chinese did not take into account the low tide, so the first shells flew over Allied ships. [3] The Russian, French, British and German cannon boats returned the fire while the British destroyers bravely attacked the Chinese destroyers moored near the Taku Arsenal.
Crews of these destroyers fled and they were captured. While the British destroyers had been towing the trophies upriver to Tongku, one of them had been been hit by a Chinese shell but this was it.
The ships shelling the forts suffered greater damage because eventually the Chinese artillerymen adjusted their aim. “Gilyak” got three hits by 152 mm shells, “Korean” - 6 hits, and on “Beaver” 229 mm gun was put out of order. German “Iltis” got 17 hits, French “Lyon” - 3 hits and British “Algerin” - 5 hits. There were numerous killed and wounded on all these ships. The bombardment started with North-Western fort and by 4 AM was shifted to the Northern Fort. The main task of the Allied Flotilla was to drive the Chinese behind the defenses - "to prepare an assault on the forts with artillery fire by a specially designated for this purpose assault column."
Intermission. A little bit of fun. In OTL we have a great example of the “international reporting”:
How assault started:
Anglophonic Wiki: “The artillery duel continued inconclusively until nearly dawn when the Allies stripped their ships of crew and mounted a ground assault on the Northwest Fort.” Which, does not make any sense because it is known that the troops had been assembled at Tongku and that in the assault participated contingents from the nations not having their ships on a river.
Russian Wiki: “At 1 a.m., the combined landing detachments of Captain Paul and Lieutenant Stankevich began marching from Tangu along the left bank of Peiho towards the northern forts of Taku.”
Taking North-Western Fort:
Anglophonic Wki: “200 Russians and Austrians led the way followed by 380 British and Italians with 300 Japanese bringing up the rear. In a bit of luck for the allies, the gunpowder magazine exploded just as the ground assault began and in the confusion afterwards the Japanese had the honor of storming the fort.”
Russian Wiki: “Pressing by the shooting Chinese soldiers on the top of a wall, the Russians, who had been walking in the vanguard, crossed the water moat by a bridge and broke the gates of the fort, into which the Japanese who had previously walked behind immediately rushed, falling under the grapeshot fire of the Chinese cannon standing intently to the gate. The Japanese suffered the greatest losses, their commander Captain Hattori died.”
Japanese version: “Towards dawn the guns of the North-West Fort were sufficiently silenced to permit the approach of a storming party. The British and Italians fought side by side, leading the attack, and supported by contingents from other nations; but it appears that this advance was somewhat impeded by the heavy ground. The Russians, who were under the heavy fire of the Chinese, progressed slowly. The Japanese, occupying the rear, now came up with two field pieces, and joined in the final charge. Captain Hattori leading his men with remarkable bravery. Indeed, the little fellows were now at the head of the attacking force, having come up by the road giving access to the fort instead of by the swampy ground. The Chinese were still holding on with great tenacity, and keeping up a heavy fusillade. A bayonet charge was necessary to drive them out of their position. Captain Hattori, at the head of his men, rushed the fort, followed by the British and Italians. Captain Hattori himself, a most gallant officer, was shot dead when only a few yards from the parapet; but Lieutenant Shiraishi, a young man of equal pluck and determination, took immediate command, and led the men on.”
Yanchevetsky: “Lieutenant Stankevich with Lieutenant Yanchis, three non-commissioned officers and two shooters rushed to the gate, the gate was broken with rifle butts, flew into a fort filled with the Chinese, and were the first to climb the wall from the inside. The Japanese, who were behind the united detachment, quickly ran forward, overtook the entire detachment and rushed after the Russians to the fort. The whole connected detachment shouted cheers and fled. Everyone was the first to get into the gate. The stunned Chinese gathered their courage and met the Japanese - their long-standing irreconcilable enemies with cruel rifle fire. Japanese commander Captain Hattori did not reach the gate just a few steps and fell killed.”
You may choose whichever description you prefer but Yanchevetsky’s report contains extremely plausible factoid: unlike all other participants of the assault the Russians forgot to bring the flag with them: “The Russians, as usually, had nothing but courage at the right moment. And that's why Stankevich nailed the shoulder straps of a non-commissioned officer of his company to the flagpole.” 😂
The Northern Fort had been taken easily and an Austrian artilleryman with a lucky shot from a captured Chinese gun blew up magazine pf the Southern Fort after which its surviving garrison flew and went under machine gun fire from “Gilyak”. By 6:30AM both Southern forts had been taken.
Commandant Lo defended the fortress entrusted to him to the end. On all the forts, brave defenders with torn hands, legs and heads were found at the guns. Chinese infantry and artillerymen were lying everywhere along the parapet. Everywhere the concrete walls of the forts were beaten, broken and blown up by European shells - bloody traces of the cruel cannonade of European boats were visible everywhere. Commandant Lo committed suicide.
Fruits of the victory.
The good part:
Anyway, this declaration of war provided Alexander with a perfect excuse for limiting involvement in the international force by an earlier promised single brigade one regiment of which was already deployed at Tientsin and the rest just landed at Taku. On ships of the Pacific Squadron and on chartered steamers, they were transported to Takou on June 4 (17) and 5 (18): 9th East. Siberian Rifle Regiment, half-battery of the 2nd Battery East. Siberian Rifle Artillery Division, semi-battery of machine guns and 3rd hundred of the 1st Verkhneudinsky Cossack Regiment.
In total, under the command of General Stessel there were: 1,596 bayonets, 4 guns, 4 machine guns and 47 Cossacks. The detachment arrived in Takou on June 6 (19). On the same day, 2 German companies of the 3rd Naval Battalion from Tsingtao; 550 British Marines from Weihaiwei; 200 Americans and 100 Japanese were landed in Taku. On the same day, General Stessel sent to Tiantsin a joint detachment consisting of the 4th, 5th Company and part of the 8th Company of the 9th Regiment, and 130 Americans with 2 guns, a total of 589 bayonets. About half the way, the detachment drove by rail. The further path was destroyed and the Allies went along the line in a marching order, but a few versts from Tiantsin were ambushed. They were unexpectedly surrounded on three sides by the Chinese, who settled in a grove and began shelling them with brutal fire. The eastern arsenal near Tiantsin also directed its guns at them. The Allies were forced to retreat. The Americans lost 1 gun and 2 killed soldiers, whose bodies were captured and disfigured by the Chinese. The Russians had 1 soldier killed and 6 wounded.
On June 9 (22) Stessel started march to Tiantsin with his main force. The Russians were joined by English, Germans, Americans, Japanese and Italians, 900 total. Halfway was made by rail, then the Russians and Germans marched taking the right flank, the rest of the allies were on the left. However, Chinese troops that fled Taku and arrived from Beitang, Lutai and Tiantsin decided to resist the most stubbornly to prevent the Allies from joining an international detachment besieged in Tiantsin. Bullets and grenades met allies from every Chinese village that they came across and which they had to take by fight. At Junliancheng station, after breaking a stubborn Chinese resistance, the column relieved a surrounded company of the 12th regiment which was holding defense there for a week. On June 10 (23) at 3 p.m., General Stessel's column joined Colonel Anisimov's detachment. Europeans besieged in Tiantsin were thus released and able to leave the concessions. Stessel’s losses during the march amounted to 224 by killed and wounded. The troops set their camp on a plain outside city wall 1 kilometer away from the concessions and 2 - 3 kilometers from the closest Chinese positions. More international reinforcements had been arriving and by June 11 (24) the allied force in Tientsin consisted of 5,300 infantry, 157 cavalry and 33 artillery pieces (including 22 machine guns and small calibers). The total allied land force between mouth of the Peiho and Tientsin was now over 9,000.
On June 11 (24), a letter was received in Tientsin from Admiral Seymour, who reported that he had been besieged by the Chinese in Xiku's arsenal, three versts from Tientsin.
________
[1] Reminder: I’m still in a Julian calendar so it is mid-June by the Gregorian calendar. For the arithmetically challenged to a degree preventing usage of a calculator, the Gregorian dates will be from time to time in (). 😉
[2] Being “trained” by somebody is pretty much a meaningless definition without identifying how well one was trained. Based upon descriptions of this encounter, it does not look like the results of training were too impressive, at least for the artillery officers, or all allied ships on the river would be sunk.
[3] See previous comment. One would assume that the artillery officers of the forts would have to be aware of the fact that the river in front of them has high and low water levels being very close to the sea and that, being aware of that fact, the marginally competent commanders would consider two firing scenarios and train their crews accordingly. It is rather amazing how, having in charge the idiots like that, the Chinese soldiers put some fight at all.
“You win battles by knowing the enemy's timing, and using a timing which the enemy does not expect.”
Miyamoto Musashi
“A lost battle is a battle one thinks one has lost.”
Jean-Paul Sartre
“The fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it will be won.”
Che Guevara
“A thorough lie is much more convincing than a superficial truth.”
“Truth is such a convenient thing that there is no need to replace it with lies: you can make anything out of it.”
Unknown author
Miyamoto Musashi
“A lost battle is a battle one thinks one has lost.”
Jean-Paul Sartre
“The fundamental principle is that no battle, combat, or skirmish is to be fought unless it will be won.”
Che Guevara
“A thorough lie is much more convincing than a superficial truth.”
“Truth is such a convenient thing that there is no need to replace it with lies: you can make anything out of it.”
Unknown author
Taku Forts, early June 1900 [1]
Fleet of the international alliance had been hanging outside mouth of the Peiho River doing pretty much nothing besides sending, from time to time the landed troops to Tientsin and Peking from Tongku railroad station.
The big ships could not get close to the coast and the troops had been carried to the shore by the boats. Access from the shore to the railroad station had been controlled by a series of the Chinese fortifications and the same goes for getting to the station by the river using the small ships. In other words, communications with Tientsin and Pekin were at the mercy of a local military administration. Well, the allies (Brits) already controlled the railroad station and train depot but getting to it against Chinese opposition could be difficult.
The landed allied troops under command of the German officer, captain Hugo von Pohl, established bivouac near the railroad station and by the early June there were, by various estimates, between 900 and 953 soldiers and sailors in it.
On June 3rd the allied admirals met to discuss what looked as the increasingly hostile behavior of the Chinese military commander, Lo Jung-Kuang, who increased garrisons of the forts and even dared to set the mines on a river. The joint ultimatum demanded that by 2AM June 4 (17) the forts must be transferred provisionally under international control “by consent or by force”. Lo Jung-Kuang asked by telegraph instructions from the governor of Zhili Province and got an order not to cede the ports.
Superficially, ultimatum sounded as a complete lunacy because the allied flotilla could not deploy its overwhelming fire power and only few small ships could steam up the river. But was this really the case?
Forces of the sides:
The allies.For actions against Chinese fortifications were allocated:
- from the Russian squadron - gunboat boats "Beaver", "Korean", "Gilyak", destroyers Nos. 204 and 207;
- from English - gunboat "Algerin", destroyers "Fame" and "Wyting";
- from the French - the gunboat "Lyon";
- from the Germans - the gunboat "Iltis";
- from the Japanese - the gunboat "Akagi" and destroyer "Kagero".
The international detachment consisted of 350 British sailors, 329 Japanese, 140 German, 50 Austrians and 25 Italians. On the June 3 (16) 186 Russian soldiers arrived to the camp.
This is what Baranovsky landing gun looked like (below).
The Chinese.
- The garrisons of the forts was between 2 and 3.5 thousand trained and armed European-style soldiers [2].
- The ground forces were covered by a Chinese military flotilla - four destroyers (Hai Hua, Hai Long, Hai Qing, Hai Xi Xi) on the river near Dagu and the 2nd rank armored cruiser Hai Tien on an external harbor. It looks like the crews of all these ships did not have any serious intention to get involved.
- Fortifications. The mouth of the Peiho River in Taku was protected by five forts - two on the north and three on the southern bank of the river, capable of keeping the river space under fire for 12 kilometers. The forts had quite primitive earthen fortifications with slight concrete cover of the surface; there were 177 guns on the batteries, of which only 19 guns were of modern type (English and German: 2 - 240 mm, 2 - 210 mm and 3 - 150 mm, 8 -120 mm Krupp rapid-fire, 4 - 152 mm Armstrong rapid-fire) and 46 breech-loading guns of the old systems (21 - 150mm, 2 - 127 mm and 23 - 80 mm). The strongest fortifications were on the river side while the land side was quite vulnerable.
So, the allies could concentrate an equal or greater fire power against any single fort and the forts could not efficiently support each other with a fire. Of course, the small allied ships had been lacking an armor protection but the Chinese explosives were not very effective and these ships were rather small moving targets while the forts were big, static and lacked protection against the shells fired at a high angle.
At 0:50 a.m. on June 4 (17), before the expiration of the ultimatum, the Chinese batteries opened artillery fire on Allied gunboats. The fire was carried out according to predetermined targets, but the Chinese did not take into account the low tide, so the first shells flew over Allied ships. [3] The Russian, French, British and German cannon boats returned the fire while the British destroyers bravely attacked the Chinese destroyers moored near the Taku Arsenal.
Crews of these destroyers fled and they were captured. While the British destroyers had been towing the trophies upriver to Tongku, one of them had been been hit by a Chinese shell but this was it.
The ships shelling the forts suffered greater damage because eventually the Chinese artillerymen adjusted their aim. “Gilyak” got three hits by 152 mm shells, “Korean” - 6 hits, and on “Beaver” 229 mm gun was put out of order. German “Iltis” got 17 hits, French “Lyon” - 3 hits and British “Algerin” - 5 hits. There were numerous killed and wounded on all these ships. The bombardment started with North-Western fort and by 4 AM was shifted to the Northern Fort. The main task of the Allied Flotilla was to drive the Chinese behind the defenses - "to prepare an assault on the forts with artillery fire by a specially designated for this purpose assault column."
Intermission. A little bit of fun. In OTL we have a great example of the “international reporting”:
How assault started:
Anglophonic Wiki: “The artillery duel continued inconclusively until nearly dawn when the Allies stripped their ships of crew and mounted a ground assault on the Northwest Fort.” Which, does not make any sense because it is known that the troops had been assembled at Tongku and that in the assault participated contingents from the nations not having their ships on a river.
Russian Wiki: “At 1 a.m., the combined landing detachments of Captain Paul and Lieutenant Stankevich began marching from Tangu along the left bank of Peiho towards the northern forts of Taku.”
Taking North-Western Fort:
Anglophonic Wki: “200 Russians and Austrians led the way followed by 380 British and Italians with 300 Japanese bringing up the rear. In a bit of luck for the allies, the gunpowder magazine exploded just as the ground assault began and in the confusion afterwards the Japanese had the honor of storming the fort.”
Russian Wiki: “Pressing by the shooting Chinese soldiers on the top of a wall, the Russians, who had been walking in the vanguard, crossed the water moat by a bridge and broke the gates of the fort, into which the Japanese who had previously walked behind immediately rushed, falling under the grapeshot fire of the Chinese cannon standing intently to the gate. The Japanese suffered the greatest losses, their commander Captain Hattori died.”
Japanese version: “Towards dawn the guns of the North-West Fort were sufficiently silenced to permit the approach of a storming party. The British and Italians fought side by side, leading the attack, and supported by contingents from other nations; but it appears that this advance was somewhat impeded by the heavy ground. The Russians, who were under the heavy fire of the Chinese, progressed slowly. The Japanese, occupying the rear, now came up with two field pieces, and joined in the final charge. Captain Hattori leading his men with remarkable bravery. Indeed, the little fellows were now at the head of the attacking force, having come up by the road giving access to the fort instead of by the swampy ground. The Chinese were still holding on with great tenacity, and keeping up a heavy fusillade. A bayonet charge was necessary to drive them out of their position. Captain Hattori, at the head of his men, rushed the fort, followed by the British and Italians. Captain Hattori himself, a most gallant officer, was shot dead when only a few yards from the parapet; but Lieutenant Shiraishi, a young man of equal pluck and determination, took immediate command, and led the men on.”
Yanchevetsky: “Lieutenant Stankevich with Lieutenant Yanchis, three non-commissioned officers and two shooters rushed to the gate, the gate was broken with rifle butts, flew into a fort filled with the Chinese, and were the first to climb the wall from the inside. The Japanese, who were behind the united detachment, quickly ran forward, overtook the entire detachment and rushed after the Russians to the fort. The whole connected detachment shouted cheers and fled. Everyone was the first to get into the gate. The stunned Chinese gathered their courage and met the Japanese - their long-standing irreconcilable enemies with cruel rifle fire. Japanese commander Captain Hattori did not reach the gate just a few steps and fell killed.”
You may choose whichever description you prefer but Yanchevetsky’s report contains extremely plausible factoid: unlike all other participants of the assault the Russians forgot to bring the flag with them: “The Russians, as usually, had nothing but courage at the right moment. And that's why Stankevich nailed the shoulder straps of a non-commissioned officer of his company to the flagpole.” 😂
The Northern Fort had been taken easily and an Austrian artilleryman with a lucky shot from a captured Chinese gun blew up magazine pf the Southern Fort after which its surviving garrison flew and went under machine gun fire from “Gilyak”. By 6:30AM both Southern forts had been taken.
Commandant Lo defended the fortress entrusted to him to the end. On all the forts, brave defenders with torn hands, legs and heads were found at the guns. Chinese infantry and artillerymen were lying everywhere along the parapet. Everywhere the concrete walls of the forts were beaten, broken and blown up by European shells - bloody traces of the cruel cannonade of European boats were visible everywhere. Commandant Lo committed suicide.
Fruits of the victory.
The good part:
- It was decided which countries will have their flags hoisted over which forts and other important places.
- The captured destroyers had been divided between Brits, Germans, Russians and French.
- Now the allies had a free access to the railroad station of Tongku and, in theory, an easy access to Tientsin except for the fact that the railroad was thoroughly destroyed half way to Tientsin.
- After the news reached Pekin, on June 7 (20) the German Ambassador, who was arrogant enough to ride alone, had been assassinated in Pekin and bands of the Boxers besieged foreign embassies and Catholic cathedral.
- The Chinese government was pushed to the side of the Boxers by this obvious act of a foreign aggression and the Chinese army was instructed to resist foreign military forces on Chinese soil and kill the main source of evil, the Christians: “Foreigners behave aggressively towards us, violate our territorial integrity, trample our people and take away our property by force... In addition, they oppress our people or blasphesy our gods. Ordinary people suffer unprecedented oppression, and each of them is very vengeful. Therefore, brave followers of Yihetuan burn churches and kill Christians.” China officially declared a war on the members of Alliance.
- Seymour’s column, which was so far dealing exclusively with the bands of Boxers and already was in trouble, for the first time encountered the regular troops and found itself in a BIG trouble.
- If initially, Russia had to deal with the occasional incidents on its border with China, now a possibility of the coordinated actions involving Chinese regular troops had to be expected and dealt with. Immediate mobilization of the Irkutsk and Amur Military districts had been ordered. This was, seemingly, an obvious overkill involving 5 army corps vs. rather pathetic Chinese troops in Manchuria. But perhaps it was not…
Anyway, this declaration of war provided Alexander with a perfect excuse for limiting involvement in the international force by an earlier promised single brigade one regiment of which was already deployed at Tientsin and the rest just landed at Taku. On ships of the Pacific Squadron and on chartered steamers, they were transported to Takou on June 4 (17) and 5 (18): 9th East. Siberian Rifle Regiment, half-battery of the 2nd Battery East. Siberian Rifle Artillery Division, semi-battery of machine guns and 3rd hundred of the 1st Verkhneudinsky Cossack Regiment.
In total, under the command of General Stessel there were: 1,596 bayonets, 4 guns, 4 machine guns and 47 Cossacks. The detachment arrived in Takou on June 6 (19). On the same day, 2 German companies of the 3rd Naval Battalion from Tsingtao; 550 British Marines from Weihaiwei; 200 Americans and 100 Japanese were landed in Taku. On the same day, General Stessel sent to Tiantsin a joint detachment consisting of the 4th, 5th Company and part of the 8th Company of the 9th Regiment, and 130 Americans with 2 guns, a total of 589 bayonets. About half the way, the detachment drove by rail. The further path was destroyed and the Allies went along the line in a marching order, but a few versts from Tiantsin were ambushed. They were unexpectedly surrounded on three sides by the Chinese, who settled in a grove and began shelling them with brutal fire. The eastern arsenal near Tiantsin also directed its guns at them. The Allies were forced to retreat. The Americans lost 1 gun and 2 killed soldiers, whose bodies were captured and disfigured by the Chinese. The Russians had 1 soldier killed and 6 wounded.
On June 9 (22) Stessel started march to Tiantsin with his main force. The Russians were joined by English, Germans, Americans, Japanese and Italians, 900 total. Halfway was made by rail, then the Russians and Germans marched taking the right flank, the rest of the allies were on the left. However, Chinese troops that fled Taku and arrived from Beitang, Lutai and Tiantsin decided to resist the most stubbornly to prevent the Allies from joining an international detachment besieged in Tiantsin. Bullets and grenades met allies from every Chinese village that they came across and which they had to take by fight. At Junliancheng station, after breaking a stubborn Chinese resistance, the column relieved a surrounded company of the 12th regiment which was holding defense there for a week. On June 10 (23) at 3 p.m., General Stessel's column joined Colonel Anisimov's detachment. Europeans besieged in Tiantsin were thus released and able to leave the concessions. Stessel’s losses during the march amounted to 224 by killed and wounded. The troops set their camp on a plain outside city wall 1 kilometer away from the concessions and 2 - 3 kilometers from the closest Chinese positions. More international reinforcements had been arriving and by June 11 (24) the allied force in Tientsin consisted of 5,300 infantry, 157 cavalry and 33 artillery pieces (including 22 machine guns and small calibers). The total allied land force between mouth of the Peiho and Tientsin was now over 9,000.
On June 11 (24), a letter was received in Tientsin from Admiral Seymour, who reported that he had been besieged by the Chinese in Xiku's arsenal, three versts from Tientsin.
________
[1] Reminder: I’m still in a Julian calendar so it is mid-June by the Gregorian calendar. For the arithmetically challenged to a degree preventing usage of a calculator, the Gregorian dates will be from time to time in (). 😉
[2] Being “trained” by somebody is pretty much a meaningless definition without identifying how well one was trained. Based upon descriptions of this encounter, it does not look like the results of training were too impressive, at least for the artillery officers, or all allied ships on the river would be sunk.
[3] See previous comment. One would assume that the artillery officers of the forts would have to be aware of the fact that the river in front of them has high and low water levels being very close to the sea and that, being aware of that fact, the marginally competent commanders would consider two firing scenarios and train their crews accordingly. It is rather amazing how, having in charge the idiots like that, the Chinese soldiers put some fight at all.
Question. !!!!
Question to everybody. To go or not to go imperialistic? At that point it starts looking like I almost pushed myself into a corner and preservation of the Chinese Empire ceased to look as a meaningful Russian policy because its government ceased to look as a reliable partner by any stretch of imagination. In OTL the argument was security of the Russian-Chinese border and a mutual anti-Japanese stance. ITTL Russian-Chinese border is already shorter (minus Mongolia) and Russian Far East is less vulnerable. Russia and Japan do not have conflicting interests in China/Korea and we can assume that even an aggressive party in Japan is not ready to go to a major war over long ago settled issues of Sakhalin and existing split of the Kuril islands.
So far I see the following options (additions are welcomed):
Depending upon the chosen option, I’m going to shape the course of the Russian actions in Boxers Rebellion so, please, think fast. Thanks.
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[1] I meant seppuku.
So far I see the following options (additions are welcomed):
- Russia, after demonstration of its military power, gets its share of the reparations and its troops are marching home leaving the allies to loot at will and enforce whatever treaties they want on China. Perhaps with the provision that if some economic/financial privileges are granted to somebody, then Russia is automatically entitled to the same (in OTL such an agreement after SJW prevented establishment of a foreign control over the Chinese finances; something like OTL Ottoman and Egypt cases). The problem is that China can’t really pay that reparation in any foreseen future. In OTL by the start of WWII the unpaid balance on it, with 3% annual percents, was approximately two times bigger than the initial amount. In other words, Russia is getting peanuts, at best.
- Russia is getting a small compensation, which China can realistically pay (approximately 70,000,000 as in OTL) and concession to build Trans-Manchurian RR. Not sure if ITTL, with TransSib functional, this RR is going ever repay the construction expenses and it will definitely produce the same conflicts with the locals as in OTL.
- Russia limits itself to strictly security-improving scenario adding triangle to the east of the Sungari River (map below). Perhaps in exchange for a part of the contribution which China can’t pay anyway . Pluses: (a) still relatively small population, mostly Manchu, which can be controlled, (b) clear defensive perimeter which improves security of Vladivostok and Khabarovsk, (c) nobody really wants it, even Japanese, (d) this presents an opportunity to further improve relations with Japan by allowing it to grab Southern Manchuria (annexation or concessions), (e) geographically, with Greater Khingan and Mongolia on the West and the Sungari as a border, this pretty much leaves a potential attack direction only from the South across the Sungari. Minuses: (a) the Brits (and perhaps the US as well) are going to be unhappy as a matter of principle (if there is (d) above with Japan they can be offered to commit certain unnatural act to themselves [1]), (b) the area is almost useless economically except for some gold and coal - the valuable stuff is on the South.
- Russia is grabbing the whole Manchuria as “sphere of interest”. Conflicts with Japan, Brits, US, and the local population. Those with the imperialistic inclinations probably will like this. 😜
Depending upon the chosen option, I’m going to shape the course of the Russian actions in Boxers Rebellion so, please, think fast. Thanks.
_______
[1] I meant seppuku.
I'll vote 3 seems the best course to take for Russia since they'll get something out of China and still look strong to themselves and everyone else.
Although 4 is sounds "pretty fun" because it'll make lots of drama between it and the other powers.
Although 4 is sounds "pretty fun" because it'll make lots of drama between it and the other powers.
It’s awkward as given the Qing is a Manchu dominated entity you can’t carve out a separatist Manchu state to act as a Russian dominated buffer state like you could with Mongolia.
It’s hard to imagine the Russian state in the era resisting any favorable border adjustments given the situation, as Qing is an unstable unreliable partner, useless as an ally and given its embrace of the boxers cannot even seemingly be trusted to be neutral regarding any “barbarian devils” even if the Russians make efforts reaching out to them.
Probably it is still optimal for Russia to avoid taking any territory filled with Chinese people, but a limited mostly Manchu territory in the interests of a more defensible border is likely the least worst option available. Especially if the Manchus ever lose their grip on China, as a more Han dominated entity may not harbor any significant revanchist feelings for border territory filled with the “monstrous Manchus”.
It’s hard to imagine the Russian state in the era resisting any favorable border adjustments given the situation, as Qing is an unstable unreliable partner, useless as an ally and given its embrace of the boxers cannot even seemingly be trusted to be neutral regarding any “barbarian devils” even if the Russians make efforts reaching out to them.
Probably it is still optimal for Russia to avoid taking any territory filled with Chinese people, but a limited mostly Manchu territory in the interests of a more defensible border is likely the least worst option available. Especially if the Manchus ever lose their grip on China, as a more Han dominated entity may not harbor any significant revanchist feelings for border territory filled with the “monstrous Manchus”.
I had some impressive show of force scenario in mind. Of course, it is somewhat on a crazy side but, hopefully, this will be forgiven. And the option allows to turn the whole OTL framework upside down, which is more or less the goal of the whole TL.
We already had this scenario in OTL and even if ITTL the war with Japan may end differently this would be one more version of the countless alt-RJW books seemingly popular in today’s Russia. Trust me, the genre is boring unless it involves something seriously insane but I never read far enough to find out what this insane part can be. Perhaps Russian invasion of Britain? By whatever reason they seriously dislike it. 😂
Can in any possible scenario the locals be left alone? Because if there is Im all for upsetting all of the above as much as possible
As long the russians keep a policy of not screwing the manchurians I vote 4
Make the (other) imperialists suffer!
Why think small? Go big or go home!
Build airships! Invade the United States! Land on Washington! Call it Greater Alyaska!
Might as well rename "Red Dawn" as White Dawn while at it...
Oh wait this isnt that kind of TL.. unfortunately
I've supported Heilongjiang before. I'd recommend the Lalin River which basically forms the modern-day Heilongjiang-Jilin border though. The Songhua includes some lands reasonably populated even then just north of Jilin city. Basically my thought is Russia takes what is modern-day Heilongjiang, Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture, and Hulunbuir, basically the area along and north of the Trans-Manchurian Railroad. Population of this area would have been about 2 million in 1900, most, but not all of them, Chinese. I think you are too pessimistic about Russian ability to manage Chinese populations. Yes they may be a pain, but Russia managed to prevent any demographically meaningful number of Chinese settling in Outer Manchuria. It isn't going to make Russia a fortune, but I think it will be very helpful in the long run. Outer Manchuria has never had the population to really be a viable economic engine and so was a sink. Heilongjiang has a *lot* of good arable land, about the same amount as Kazakhstan which managed to get 6 million European settlers by 1959. Manchuria won't get quite as many as it is further, but still a lot can be done. Get enough people, form an economic engine that interacts with the neighborhood and Far East will get much more fun after a few decades for Russia.
I don't think all of Manchuria is a good idea. Will be a challenging puppet in long run, and *way* to many people to annex, Manchuria south of the Songhua would have about 10 million people at this point. Also, that large population closer to the Chinese core, also means that any Chinese regime will be much more motivated to take it. I think northern Manchuria could easily end up much like Outer Mongolia or Outer Manchuria given it still has a relatively low and recent population in 1900, yes the Chinese can be a bit salty about it, but not like they really expect or plan to reabsorb it. I think Russia should generously offer Japan a free hand in Southern Manchuria to annex or puppet as they see fit. Not only does that remove Japan from the list of countries that might throw a fit (and make Japan the worse guy here giving they are taking a bigger slice while not even being European)), but also means Japan and China are unlikely to ever ally against Russia and provides a nice buffer between Russia and China. Also of course be open to the French or Germans taking some treaty ports or Heinan or Taiwan.
I don't think all of Manchuria is a good idea. Will be a challenging puppet in long run, and *way* to many people to annex, Manchuria south of the Songhua would have about 10 million people at this point. Also, that large population closer to the Chinese core, also means that any Chinese regime will be much more motivated to take it. I think northern Manchuria could easily end up much like Outer Mongolia or Outer Manchuria given it still has a relatively low and recent population in 1900, yes the Chinese can be a bit salty about it, but not like they really expect or plan to reabsorb it. I think Russia should generously offer Japan a free hand in Southern Manchuria to annex or puppet as they see fit. Not only does that remove Japan from the list of countries that might throw a fit (and make Japan the worse guy here giving they are taking a bigger slice while not even being European)), but also means Japan and China are unlikely to ever ally against Russia and provides a nice buffer between Russia and China. Also of course be open to the French or Germans taking some treaty ports or Heinan or Taiwan.
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