Map Thread XIV

[Goldstein]

Thank you.

Initially, fun oddness, for one never really sees such a Navarre and all. But it is much like how East Germany is decoupled from 'Germany', or why Friesland is decoupled from 'the Netherlands'. A variety of policies fitting under the 'social justice' framework were tried out, attempts at increasing living standards; a bit of nationalism here and there, or seeing whether East Germany could properly catch up to West Germany if they were connected in a looser manner, and so on. A rather easygoing attitude; oh, we'll just try it out, see whether it works (this is, by the by, where our world might be heading towards, unfortunately enough; easy ideas that make little sense when one looks closer, but hey, build a wall, leave the EU, stop all development aid... Easy). Some things worked, others didn't, most were a bit misguided or too naive - but then, perhaps this idealism, this positive and carefree attitude, is exactly what the world needs. 'Social justice' isn't the stereotypical SJW here, by the way, but an actual ideological framework

I see, fair enough.

BTW, is it just me, or this setting is even more screwed up than the original Deus Ex setting?

 

[nlspeed]

Fun stuff! I think maybe you should have your numbers in a couple different colors? Those white numbers stand out well against, say, dark blue, but are almost unreadable on pale Ocean blue.

Mhm, that isn't a problem for me, but that could be because my monitor is extremely bright (really, my brightness is currently at zero - it'd hurt my eyes otherwise, at this time of the day - and I bet it is still brighter than many monitors). I'd normally go with black, but that was too hard to read on the USA, and I found that white worked surprisingly well, actually. But again, that might have been my monitor.

There are some dubious bits in the write up,

Did you expect anything else?

I'd be interested in them, though - but don't feel obliged to spend a lot of time on writing a whole list, for the likely answer you'd get is 'primarily because the idea seemed fun, and here is a probably-mostly-equally-dubious reason for it'.

but I can ignore it because [1] video game universe and [2] who knows, maybe it diverged well before 2016.

It's not Deus Ex's universe though, at least, not overtly so. Not beyond certain references, part of which come from the design documents of the original Deus Ex, which changed a lot until we got the Deus Ex universe we know. There's the TLC, Majestic 12, Colombia, the Meme War, Samizdat, the Jinn, Nathaniel Brown... That's all? The Jinn, for example, only appear in Deus Ex Mankind Divided, but I am playing that game currently, so I let myself be inspired (or they might be the Harpies, if you prefer A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones ).

On DeviantArt, I toyed around with the idea of this perhaps being a Deus Ex universe where augmentations didn't exist:

Antarctica has so far been left alone, and although some Australians wonder whether moving closer towards China is a good idea, most dismiss the idea out of hand. In Deus Ex's canon, the Australian Civil War took place between 2025 and 2027, but I don't care overtly much for dates (indeed, picking '2052' was the last thing I did, after writing the whole description and drawing the whole map) - it will happen one day, for the events leading up to it are in place, but it hasn't happened yet.

Detroit is nothing special, beyond being a decaying city left behind after the industry moved out. Augmentations do not yet exist, which is why Nathaniel Brown and the Jinn, for example, have slightly different roles here.

Mhm, it might actually be interesting to explore the world of Deus Ex without augmentations - so, with the Illuminati, with many of the wacky experiments, but without augmentations. Perhaps that could be this world.

However, a map is mostly an exercise in creativity for me, in fun, not per se in realism.

(However, I must take note of your poor grasp of Lovecraftiana: Cthulhu is in the mid-Pacific, not off the shore of Antarctica. Keep your eldritch abominations straight! )

I knew someone would mention that - how dare you imply Great Cthulhu can't be dreaming under the ice of Antarctica, as if R'lyeh can't be moved through space and time at His indomitable will!

EDIT:

I see, fair enough.

BTW, is it just me, or this setting is even more screwed up than the original Deus Ex setting?

Mhm, why would you say so? I actually see this as a more or less nice world, if one ignores what is happening in the USA and in the Middle-East - well, fine, compared to my usual maps, this is 'nice'.

But still, Deus Ex seems worse to me - although that might be because we know of what the Illuminati is up to, whereas I wrote this map intentionally without referring to the Illuminati even once. I would be interested in your thoughts, though.

 

[B_Munro]

Thank you.


No, it's the denial that is problematic, not?

I guess Ian has changed his views, good for him.

2009: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...laughter-1914-1923.120749/page-4#post-2374025

2013: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...de-remembrance-day.277408/page-3#post-7575378

 

[B_Munro]

I'd be interested in them, though - but don't feel obliged to spend a lot of time on writing a whole list, for the likely answer you'd get is 'primarily because the idea seemed fun, and here is a probably-mostly-equally-dubious reason for it'.

Ireland has been reunited under the EU. It is a very popular vacation destination by Scottish tourists, who then, suddenly, somehow find themselves lost and see no recourse but to opt for EU-citizenship. The UK has promised bloody murder - but the UK can hardly force its Scottish populace to never go on a holiday, certainly after rejecting three independence referenda.

This is full of no sense. Unless the UK has become a dictatorship, it has no way of keeping it's Scottish citizens from immigrating to the EU and becoming citizens - no weird excuses needed.

21) The EU has taken a drastically different course than the rest of the world; under President Chad Dumier's 'Meme War Programme', language is being recreated to remove as much negativity as possible, so as to perceptually, if not statistically, raise the living standards by introducing more and more positivity into one's daily life. It works, but some accuse him of brainwashing - a feat harder and harder to do, what with language being changed to lessen the impact of such unpleasantness as 'accusations' and 'brainwashing'.

22) The main opposition to this originates from the underground newspaper Samizdat, operated by a shadowy group known as the Silhouette. This group is under the leadership of the seductive Nicolette DuClare, who, apparently, was once very close to Dumier - lovers, even? - and who now calls him 'the Minister of True Lies'. Because of her refusal to use 'the language of the Meme War', Samizdat is less and less readable by citizens of the EU.

Newspeak references for the win! But seriously, it would take generations for this to take hold to the extent a majority of the population doesn't understand old-speak, and 2052 is only 36 years out. (Of course, it will take much less time for the next generation of European kids to become incomprehensible to their parents, but that always happens. )

The British have forcefully established the State of Palestine and have poured a lot of money into Lebanon as well. They have seized the Gaza Strip, too, as the first step to gaining control of the Suez Channel - or building a new one, perhaps - but that is a very long-term idea to be toyed with, not a concrete plan.

So the UK is going to project power thousands of miles overseas and beat up the Israelis on their own home ground (plus, they're doing this for the Palestinians. ) Yeah.

Of course, there is one very important difference between India and Russia; the latter has a sizeable amount of nuclear missiles - as such, India is covertly infiltrating Pakistan, in the hope of acquiring nuclear missiles for itself.

Right now, India had atomic weapons. Right now, India is working on an ICBM with intercontinental range.


Aceh has become the 'trading power' of fundamentalist Islam; Pakistan and Somalia are always looking for able-bodied humans. And why, yes, those trade routes do roughly form a triangle - slavery, huh, what's that? Piracy, oh dearie, say it ain't so! Indonesia has 'an understanding' with Aceh, though.

Where, exactly, is Aceh getting slaves in sufficient numbers for...what, exactly? Both these countries hardly suffer from a population shortage.

Enough, for now.

I knew someone would mention that - how dare you imply Great Cthulhu can't be dreaming under the ice of Antarctica, as if R'lyeh can't be moved through space and time at His indomitable will!

He's dead, dude. (If dreaming.)

 

[Upvoteanthology]

Finally done with my MotF entry! Enjoy! >_<

Bohemian Rhapsody
A history of Bohemia, from 1347 to 1650

​

PoD: The Maiestas Carolina is passed by Charles IV against the Bohemian Diet's wishes.

Scenario: The Maiestas Carolina was a law code introduced by Charles IV of Bohemia, which was meant to increase the power of the monarchy. It was part of his plan to connect his recently acquired domains in Luxemburg to Bohemia by taking over territories in Franconia and Thuringia. However, quickly after Charles forced it through the government, the Bohemian Diet did all they could to stop it from taking effect, causing him to have little gains throughout his lifetime. It was only after his son Wenceslaus IV became king that he was able to achieve his dream of building and consolidating the HRE. With more power to the king of Bohemia, Wenceslaus managed to avoid being deposed and arrested multiple times, sacrificing the rights of the nobles for the expansion of the military. His son, Charles V, and his son Charles VI, both managed to uphold the legacy of Wenceslaus, unifying Bavaria through royal marriages and expanding north into Wurzburg. In 1471, two years before ascending to the throne, Charles VI's wife gave birth to a boy, the only heir to the Bohemian monarchy. Charles died an untimely death due to a revolt by the nobles, leading to his 8-year-old son taking the throne. The former prince's regent was just as inept as the boy, and the other principalities saw the internal trouble as a chance to go to war with the ever-expanding Bohemia. However, the principalities soon fell into war with one another, and the claim to the Holy Roman throne soon went uncontested, especially after the defeat of Mansfeld and Burgau.

After this, the emperors of Bohemia began to have dreams of uniting the entire HRE under their rule. Soon after the "First Imperial Civil War", King Ambroz II declared war on the principalities of Bremen and Brunswick-Luneburg, slowly draining them of their army in a gruesome eleven-year war. The Bohemian army swept through and occupied the region. Soon after came the colonies in Teodusia, a continent to the west discovered by a Polish sailor in 1481. Their gains may have been delayed due to the wars in the HRE, but they quickly took over swaths of land in the former Aztec Empire, as well as claiming the "Southern Islands" (thought to be islands due to myth, in reality Argentina and Uruguay) for themselves. Due to the focus on colonization, Bohemia was forced to loosen their rule a bit more, and their goals shifted slightly. Instead of uniting the HRE under a single identity, they instead wanted to reform the HRE to fit their needs, basically becoming the leaders with every other principality being forced to listen to them. Parts of Germany not under Bohemian rule were reorganized into confederations, which made them easier to puppetize. Bohemian rule over Brabant was abdicated in favor of an indirect system, while the Paderborn Confederation, a state Bohemia directly bordered, was absorbed instead. However, only a few years after the mindset shift came the Second Imperial Civil War, in which the principalities of Brunswick, Thuringia, and the Palatanate all withdrew from the HRE, causing many other principalities within Bohemia to follow. The rebellion was quickly squashed, and borders were reorganized in the Treaty of Laa. Semi-independent kingdoms within the borders of the Empire were absorbed, such as Magdeburg and Mark, while they also worked out some border arrangements with Austriah and Stettin. The largest change to come from the Treaty was the abolishing of principalities and free cities, instead opting for a more federal arrangement with Bohemia at the center (organized in a way that the rebellious areas wouldn't be able to secede again). The more divided areas outside Bohemia were grouped together to form various larger puppet kingdoms, like Munster and Lauenburg. By 1650, Germany is basically united by a nearly foreign power. Will they ever be deposed?

 

[Analytical Engine]

Bohemia-wank.

 

[p0wderfing3r]

I've been working on a dystopia map where the Nazi's are victorious. I based it off of the post by @SRegan. This one to be exact (see below). I decided to implement a Treaty of Sevres resulting in the weird Middle East. I also had it in mind that that OTL Buenos Aries and Uruguay would become a Puppet state to control the Plate River. I also included a Gran Colombia which never fell due to Bolivar living longer and crushing the Caudillos and implementing a centralized, bureaucratic junta government which eventually would have settled and survived which became a US puppet during the construction of the Panama Canal and then a Puppet during Nazi control of the Canal. Is this plausible or is it ASB. Top map is the patch by @SRegan and the bottom is my map.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Thanks are needed for Upvote reaffirming my belief that Bohemia is still a much better name than the Czech Republic. And it's nice seeing the Czechs have their day.

 

[FancyHat]

I've been working on a dystopia map where the Nazi's are victorious. I based it off of the post by @SRegan. This one to be exact (see below). I decided to implement a Treaty of Sevres resulting in the weird Middle East. I also had it in mind that that OTL Buenos Aries and Uruguay would become a Puppet state to control the Plate River. I also included a Gran Colombia which never fell due to Bolivar living longer and crushing the Caudillos and implementing a centralized, bureaucratic junta government which eventually would have settled and survived which became a US puppet during the construction of the Panama Canal and then a Puppet during Nazi control of the Canal. Is this plausible or is it ASB. Top map is the patch by @SRegan and the bottom is my map.
View attachment 298324
View attachment 298325

Well, this whole scenario seems incredibly anachronistic and essentially impossible. Was that intentional?

Bohemia is still a much better name than the Czech Republic.

Bohemia is a historic region within the Czech Republic, along with Moravia and Czech Silesia. As such, it's not representative of the whole nation. It's a bit like saying you prefer Castile to Spain.

 

[B_Munro]

Great work, Upvote. Although you fail to mention the three or four times the French got involved.

(Did the Church stay united in this TL?)

 

[Upvoteanthology]

Great work, Upvote. Although you fail to mention the three or four times the French got involved.

(Did the Church stay united in this TL?)

Yep! And yeah, I didn't have time to write a more detailed scenario. I'd imagine the French did get involved once or twice.

 

[Goldstein]

Mhm, why would you say so? I actually see this as a more or less nice world, if one ignores what is happening in the USA and in the Middle-East - well, fine, compared to my usual maps, this is 'nice'.

But still, Deus Ex seems worse to me - although that might be because we know of what the Illuminati is up to, whereas I wrote this map intentionally without referring to the Illuminati even once. I would be interested in your thoughts, though.

No Illuminati then? In that case it's not that bad. I concluded it mostly because the US seem more destabilized, the UNATCO-equivalent is creepier and the memetic Newspeak thingy going on in Europe scares the hell out of me.

 

[p0wderfing3r]

Well, this whole scenario seems incredibly anachronistic and essentially impossible. Was that intentional?


Bohemia is a historic region within the Czech Republic, along with Moravia and Czech Silesia. As such, it's not representative of the whole nation. It's a bit like saying you prefer Castile to Spain.

I was just going off of what @SRegan had already created so talk to him about that. I didn't make the patch I just used it. I also should have mentioned that the Spanish Civil War divided the country. Is that the impossibility? What is it if it's not that.

 

[FancyHat]

I was just going off of what @SRegan had already created so talk to him about that. I didn't make the patch I just used it. I also should have mentioned that the Spanish Civil War divided the country. Is that the impossibility? What is it if it's not that.

The things about the Treaty of Sevres and Gran Colombia. Either point of divergence removes almost any possibility of Nazi Germany.

 

[p0wderfing3r]

The things about the Treaty of Sevres and Gran Colombia. Either point of divergence removes almost any possibility of Nazi Germany.

Could you enlighten me about how Gran Colombia could stop Nazi Germany from existing? I took Latin American classes in University and used my knowledge from those to create this.

 

[p0wderfing3r]

The things about the Treaty of Sevres and Gran Colombia. Either point of divergence removes almost any possibility of Nazi Germany.

How would the Treaty of Sevres stop Nazi Germany from rising?

 

[FancyHat]

Could you enlighten me about how Gran Colombia could stop Nazi Germany from existing? I took Latin American classes in University and used my knowledge from those to create this.

How would the Treaty of Sevres stop Nazi Germany from rising?

The butterfly effect. Change one event, that changes other things, and eventually you end up with a radically different history. That's kind of a central pillar of alternate history.

 

[Gian]

Finally done with my MotF entry! Enjoy! >_<

Bohemian Rhapsody
A history of Bohemia, from 1347 to 1650

PoD: The Maiestas Carolina is passed by Charles IV against the Bohemian Diet's wishes.​

Scenario: The Maiestas Carolina was a law code introduced by Charles IV of Bohemia, which was meant to increase the power of the monarchy. It was part of his plan to connect his recently acquired domains in Luxemburg to Bohemia by taking over territories in Franconia and Thuringia. However, quickly after Charles forced it through the government, the Bohemian Diet did all they could to stop it from taking effect, causing him to have little gains throughout his lifetime. It was only after his son Wenceslaus IV became king that he was able to achieve his dream of building and consolidating the HRE. With more power to the king of Bohemia, Wenceslaus managed to avoid being deposed and arrested multiple times, sacrificing the rights of the nobles for the expansion of the military. His son, Charles V, and his son Charles VI, both managed to uphold the legacy of Wenceslaus, unifying Bavaria through royal marriages and expanding north into Wurzburg. In 1471, two years before ascending to the throne, Charles VI's wife gave birth to a boy, the only heir to the Bohemian monarchy. Charles died an untimely death due to a revolt by the nobles, leading to his 8-year-old son taking the throne. The former prince's regent was just as inept as the boy, and the other principalities saw the internal trouble as a chance to go to war with the ever-expanding Bohemia. However, the principalities soon fell into war with one another, and the claim to the Holy Roman throne soon went uncontested, especially after the defeat of Mansfeld and Burgau.

After this, the emperors of Bohemia began to have dreams of uniting the entire HRE under their rule. Soon after the "First Imperial Civil War", King Ambroz II declared war on the principalities of Bremen and Brunswick-Luneburg, slowly draining them of their army in a gruesome eleven-year war. The Bohemian army swept through and occupied the region. Soon after came the colonies in Teodusia, a continent to the west discovered by a Polish sailor in 1481. Their gains may have been delayed due to the wars in the HRE, but they quickly took over swaths of land in the former Aztec Empire, as well as claiming the "Southern Islands" (thought to be islands due to myth, in reality Argentina and Uruguay) for themselves. Due to the focus on colonization, Bohemia was forced to loosen their rule a bit more, and their goals shifted slightly. Instead of uniting the HRE under a single identity, they instead wanted to reform the HRE to fit their needs, basically becoming the leaders with every other principality being forced to listen to them. Parts of Germany not under Bohemian rule were reorganized into confederations, which made them easier to puppetize. Bohemian rule over Brabant was abdicated in favor of an indirect system, while the Paderborn Confederation, a state Bohemia directly bordered, was absorbed instead. However, only a few years after the mindset shift came the Second Imperial Civil War, in which the principalities of Brunswick, Thuringia, and the Palatanate all withdrew from the HRE, causing many other principalities within Bohemia to follow. The rebellion was quickly squashed, and borders were reorganized in the Treaty of Laa. Semi-independent kingdoms within the borders of the Empire were absorbed, such as Magdeburg and Mark, while they also worked out some border arrangements with Austriah and Stettin. The largest change to come from the Treaty was the abolishing of principalities and free cities, instead opting for a more federal arrangement with Bohemia at the center (organized in a way that the rebellious areas wouldn't be able to secede again). The more divided areas outside Bohemia were grouped together to form various larger puppet kingdoms, like Munster and Lauenburg. By 1650, Germany is basically united by a nearly foreign power. Will they ever be deposed?

How might the Protestants fare in Bohemia ITTL? (Just sayin')

 

[Upvoteanthology]

How might the Protestants fare in Bohemia ITTL? (Just sayin')

Well, there wasn't much of a split in the church in this TL. However, there was reform in Bohemia ITTL, as Charles IV (or was it his son?) was a known supporter of Jan Hus, who was a radical christian in the 1400's. Bohemia is careful to stay loyal to the church while still doing their own thing, making religious expression a bit less of a crazy idea in this TL. Because of that, the differences between the practicing of Bohemian-brand Christianity and the rest of Western Europe mixed together, and because people aren't prosecuted for either they don't complain.

 

[Red Orm]

Well, there wasn't much of a split in the church in this TL. However, there was reform in Bohemia ITTL, as Charles IV (or was it his son?) was a known supporter of Jan Hus, who was a radical christian in the 1400's. Bohemia is careful to stay loyal to the church while still doing their own thing, making religious expression a bit less of a crazy idea in this TL. Because of that, the differences between the practicing of Bohemian-brand Christianity and the rest of Western Europe mixed together, and because people aren't prosecuted for either they don't complain.

Nice map, but boy are those blues similar.