I sort of assumed Mary of Austria would be his wife TTL, but I could be wrong...
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Also, is this supposed to be the consequence of a later Pavia?
James V's bastard? Why?
Pushed it back to 1533, but France has Salic law. She's only heiress to Brittany, not to France as a whole. And she's too young for Edmund II or any of her French uncles, but too old for their kids... William seemed like a decent shout for her, given all of that. I mean, I suppose she could marry into Denmark or something, but then I need another match for Louise...
So is she her dad's only child? Francis I joined the French and Breton succession IOTL. Even if he didn't for some reason ITTL, she would marry a French prince of the blood.
Not until 1534, IIRC. I don't see the Bretons ratifying that if Francis has a child, even if it is a girl... and yes, she is his only child.
I suppose ITTL England wages war and successfully gets Brittany à la Calais?
Well, in that case, I'm putting Charlotte's birthday back to 1532 - she can be early. And I see your point, but I think she's just rather between generations...
The only way I can see her marrying in England is if they beat France in a war.
Francois I actually made it so that Brittany was inseparable from the French crown sometime in the early 1530s IOTL and I see no reason why he wouldn’t do that ITTL too - even still Charlotte is a daughter of France and no daughter of France would marry a second son who is not also a sovereign ruler
except Cat showed no "desire" to hang on to power. In her native Portugal she served as regent and then handed over power when she had to
Per your tree, she has two brothers. One who dies in 1718, and one who hangs on until '26. She's likely married after the birth of the "spare" in 1713. Portugal is too big an age gap for her to be plausibly considered. Austria or Spain (as second wife to Joseph I, Karl VI or Felipe V) makes more sense. And it brings England a potentially valuable partner if they make being granted the Asiento conditional of the marriage contract. With Austria they get the Austrian Netherlands as a trading partner, which, while they were nowhere near their "golden age" levels, was still "important". Especially if Joseph I survived and managed to implement his roads-and-rivers plan.
only way the Ansbach marriage is happening is if Karoline is already married to either Karl VI or Felipe V (both were considered OTL). The only way for the latter- though- is to remove Madame de Maintenon's blocking of Karoline's brother's attempt to marry into the French royal family. As to the whole "arranged" marriage part, Georg I was explicitly against an "unseen bride" and packed his son and heir off around Germany to scout his potential bride himself. Also, Georg II didn't have mistresses until after Karoline died. It was a kneejerk reaction to his parents' own marital infidelities.
Maria Theresia
Franz Joseph's brother (both Max in Mexico and Pedro II were in favour of this match)
probably not very. Maria Pia's marriage to Portugal (which I'm guessing is the "impetus" for this) was a last minute thing (Pedro V refused her because he wanted an Austrian archduchess, a princess of Parma (i.e. granddaughter of Charles X) or a Russian grand duchess (not sure how that would've worked @Valena ; Portuguese Pedro was a lot closer to D. Miguel's "idea" of a king than the Coburgs liked*) not some "nobody from Savoy**". It was only his death that allowed the marriage between Maria Pia and D. Luiz to go through.
As to the bride choice, OTL Pedro II left it in the hands of his sister, Chica [the princesse de Joinville] to vet the potential bride grooms for his daguhter. That was how the balance ended up heavily skewed in Orléanist favour OTL (first Chica's son, the comte de Penthièvre, and half-Orléans comte de Flandres; then the comte d'Eu and Coburg). While for a daughter-in-law, he'll likely weight the scales in favour of an archduchess, Chica's still going to be reporting back. Given how the Orléans regarded the house of Savoy with contempt (both for Carlo Alberto's siding with Napoléon and later reasons), Maria II refused one of her sisters to a Savoyard (almost think it was a Chica-VE II match that was suggested), plus their sister, Januaria/Gennara, is married in Naples...I suspect it's going to be a tough sell. And that's before we get to Clotilda's "frail-looking" appearance (likely raising doubts as to whether she'd survive a sea-voyage to Brasil).
*he even met with D. Miguel, corresponded with him (presumably on the matter of a bride as well) and financially supported his great-uncle. So much so that when Pedro died, Miguel remarked that his "guardian angel was no more".
**he objected to Stephanie of Hohenzollern on these grounds OTL as well, Prince Albert managed to convince him to give it a shot. Whether Albert would get so lucky the second time is debatable.
were the Netherlands due to be somewhere else if he didn't marry Isabella of Austria? He'd likely still wind up there. As for brides, not marrying an archduchess (maybe someone from Mecklenburg or Brunswick?) might actually "help" not harm. Not because of any reason than it avoids giving the convenient bogeyman of an imperial brother-in-law. And potentially marrying an older bride means there's no "in" for Sigbrit and Dyveke to get their hooks into him (or at least, mitigate their influence somewhat).
That's a fair assessment - I assumed she might be more protective over her only child.
That was a screw up on my end. I meant to kill him off earlier - that's been fixed. Joseph I died when she was 13 so I kind of don't think they'd be a good match age wise, Charles VI married when she was 10 and while the betrothal could happen, I'm not sure, and I think she's too young for Philip V. But I might be wrong.
Welp...that's fair. Who would you suggest for Amalia Louise?
That's as OOC as they come, I'm with Kellan on this. Also, I don't see Catherine being like her mom.
Also, Cat as a regent would go for Austrian alliance especially after her brother's marriage. So I can see OTL Princess Sobieski happening to be a Queen of England, Scotland and Ireland (a nice historical in-joke).
No way a complete German rando would be selected.
she'd be 16 when Felipe married Isabel Farnese. Don't know how that's too young.
Originally Karl VI was engaged to two of Catherine's nieces (Teresa Maria (1696-1704) then Francisca Josepha (b.1699)) before Leopold I died. It was only in 1706/1707 that Joseph decided that a German match might be more useful*. Roughly the same time that the negotiations started to marry Maria Anna of Austria to Joao V of Portugal**.
*whether Joseph would snub an English match in the same way- when England is essentially the Empire's main ally in Spain against France and this would be akin to telling England "please side with the French against us"- is debatable.
**which suggests to me that Maria Anna to Joao V/Magdalene to the duque of Beja may have been a sort of "kiss and make up" after breaking the alliance.
Probably ASB, but here goes.
Ferenc II, King of Hungary [1711/1714-1735], Prince of Transylvania [1705-1735 [1]] (1676-1735) m: 1694 Charlotte Amalie of Hesse-Wanfried (1679-1722)
[2] OTL Carlos III of Spain
@Fehérvári @isabella @Nuraghe @Jan Olbracht
Ferenc II, King of Hungary [1711/1714-1735], Prince of Transylvania [1705-1735 [1]] (1676-1735) m: 1694 Charlotte Amalie of Hesse-Wanfried (1679-1722)
Lipót Lajos György (1696-1699)
József II, King of Hungary [from 1735] (b.1700) m: 1719 Maria Amalie of Austria (b.1701)
Maria Amalie Sárolta (b.1721) m: 1738 Carlos I, Grand Duke of Tuscany [2] (b.1718)
Maria Józsefa (b.1725)
István Ferenc (1727-1732)
Fülöp Zsigmond, Prince of Transylvania (b.1730) m: 1748 Maria Antonieta of Spain (b.1729)
Lajos József (b.1733)
Erzsébet Maria Borbála (b.1736)
György (b.1701)
Sárolta (1706-1706)
[1] Emperor Joseph dies before peace is concluded, leading to Rákóczi remaining as Hungary's ruler until the Peace of Utrecht obliges Karl VI to acknowledge him as king of Hungary in exchange for retaining Bavaria. Max II gets compensated with Sicily (as originally planned)[2] OTL Carlos III of Spain
@Fehérvári @isabella @Nuraghe @Jan Olbracht
Savoy wank:
Maximilian I (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor, m. a) Mary of Burgundy, b) Anne of Brittany, c) Bianca Maria Sforza
1a) Philip IV (1478-1503) Duke of Burgundy, King of Castile iure uxoris, m. Joanna (1479-1555) Queen of Castile
2a) Margaret (1480-1530) Duchess of Burgundy 1505, m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias and Girona, b) Philibert II (1480-1534) Duke of Savoy
3a) Francis (1481)
4c) Ernest (1496-1550) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1547) with issue
[1] Son of Arthur and CoA
[2] Son of Joanna the Mad and her second husband Alfonso, Duke of Segorbe. Anne is Ferdinand VI's second wife.
Maximilian I (1459-1519) Holy Roman Emperor, m. a) Mary of Burgundy, b) Anne of Brittany, c) Bianca Maria Sforza
1a) Philip IV (1478-1503) Duke of Burgundy, King of Castile iure uxoris, m. Joanna (1479-1555) Queen of Castile
1) Eleanor (1498)
2) Charles (1500-1505) Duke of Burgundy 1503
3) Isabella (1501)
2a) Margaret (1480-1530) Duchess of Burgundy 1505, m. a) John (1478-1497) Prince of Asturias and Girona, b) Philibert II (1480-1534) Duke of Savoy
1b) Margaret (1504-1556) m. Henry IX (1503-1541) King of England [1]
2b) Mary (1505-1538) m. Louis II (1506-1559) King of Bohemia and Hungary
3b) Philiberta (1509-1561) m. James V (1512-1550) King of Scotland
4b) Philip V/III (1510-1564) Duke of Burgundy 1530, Duke of Savoy 1534, m. Sibylle of Cleves (1512-1554)
5b) Eleanor (1515-1572) m. Francis (1517-1545) Duke of Lorraine
6b) Anne (1517-1558) m. Ferdinand VI (1506-1556) King of Spain [2]
3a) Francis (1481)
4c) Ernest (1496-1550) Holy Roman Emperor 1519, m. Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1547) with issue
[1] Son of Arthur and CoA
[2] Son of Joanna the Mad and her second husband Alfonso, Duke of Segorbe. Anne is Ferdinand VI's second wife.
pretty much only possible if Lajos II dies in infancy (IMO). Hungary would be a far more important match to shore up (as indicated by the fact that Max was willing to marry Anna himself if his grandsons proved unavailable/unwilling) than Denmark.
Although I could be wrong