Lee in the West

[lothaw]

Suppose Robert E. Lee had been put in command of the Western Department after A.S. Johnson was killed at Shiloh. Would Lee be able to produce a string of victories in Tennesse and Mississippi like he did in Virginia? Or would it be a repeat of Grant v Lee 1864 style?

Not to mention the effect it would have on the Pennisular campaign in Virginia after Joe Johnson gets injured.

 

[Nytram01]

Lee was a regional General. All of his successes came within the Borders of Virginia. With the slim resources the Confederacy had and within his comfort zone of Virginia he could probably have taken on Napoleon or Wellington or Von Multke and at least held his own but outside Virginia he struggled.

The lost orders of the Maryland campaign nowithstanding Lee's other attempt to fight outside Virginia was poorly managed and ended up with his defeat at Gettysburg, for which he blamed himself but many people blamed others and exonerated him.

In the West and against a wurrier like Buell or Rosecrans he should secur victories if only for the reason that he was a decisive commander while Buell and Rosecrans were not.

If Lee in was Bragg's place when Kirby Smith joined up with the Army of Mississippi to form the Army of Tennessee at Harrodsburg Kentucky then General Buell would be crushed as Lee would not let an opportunity like Bragg had there slip out of his hand but this would have little impact in the long run.

If Rosecrans get command after Buell then Lee will likely score more successes in Kentucky but if command of the Union Army there goes to Thomas then Lee will certainly struggle.

If Lee commands in Mississippi against Grant then he will struggle as well. He will be more successful than Pemberton or the still recovering Joe Johnston was but he would likely lose in the end regardless.

As commander of the Army of Tennessee his legacy would likely be in creation of a good fighting Army that would be unified against then enemy, just like Bragg's legacy was that of a tough Army but one without unity.

I can see the Army of Tennessee being set up in a three Corps system with Hardee, Breckenridge and maybe Cleburne, Stewart or Cheatham being the Corps commanders. Wheeler is still likely to be in command of the Cavalry as Forrest is better in independent command.

Lee would quickly get rid of the dead weight in his Army upon getting command of it and send those general he didn't like further West or South.

But despite this, in the long run, Kentucky might be more hotly contested but the Confederacy will still lose to the more powerful Union. The Union, after all, hold most of the aces, its just a matter of getting the right men in place to use them.

 

[Kevin in Indy]

If not Lee, then Whom, in the East?

I agree that Lee, although likely to be out-resourced, would put up a good fight in the West. But, when Joseph Johnston goes down the following month at Seven Pines, who is going to step up and save Richmond from the swift and sure assaults of George McClellan ( )? Best candidates seem to be Beauregard (if he's local) and Longstreet. I think that Longstreet, on the defensive with close-enough on numbers, can prevent the capture of Richmond; the next question is does McClellan keep his army before Richmond or pull back?

 

[Nytram01]

I agree that Lee, although likely to be out-resourced, would put up a good fight in the West. But, when Joseph Johnston goes down the following month at Seven Pines, who is going to step up and save Richmond from the swift and sure assaults of George McClellan ( )? Best candidates seem to be Beauregard (if he's local) and Longstreet. I think that Longstreet, on the defensive with close-enough on numbers, can prevent the capture of Richmond; the next question is does McClellan keep his army before Richmond or pull back?

Ol' Bory is out of favor with Davis. The very reason Johnston got command of the Virginia theatre was because Beauregard had ben sent out west after publically criticising Davis in the papers. He's got no chance of getting command of a major army again after he took time off to restore his health after Corinth.

Longstreet is too junior an officer to get command of the Eastern Theatre after Fair Oaks. The only guy in the Eastern theatre at that point who had distinguished himself for the Confederacy by Fair Oaks was Jackson and he is far from ideal to lead a major Army.

There were two main candidates to command the ANV after Johnston's injury, Lee and Bragg. Lee got the job because he was there at the scene and able to take command immediately but if Lee is out west then Bragg is the likely cadidate to get command of the ANV instead.

What would likely happen then is either Gustavus W. Smith or Samuel Cooper would take temporary command until Bragg could arrive. Smith did take command after Johnston in OTL but suffered a nervous break down and had to be replaced immediately so chances are that Cooper would get temporary command. That or Davis would take command himself.

 

[deejay27]

hmmm

The hardest part of this is seeing Lee away from the East. Though there was a lot of value in the Western conflicts, it was the East that the world was watching. That is the most politically active center of the war and the one that was most likely to gain the recognition from Britain, France, and any other country that might offer aid that they depserately needed. As well as stir up anti-Lincoln and anti-war sentiments.

It would have to be a slick commander to replace him. They would need someone who was willing to be aggressive when the opportunity presented itself. Though the south could see some success with defensive actions, they would get ground down before too long and needed victories to assure possible allies they were a good investment.

 

[lothaw]

Ol' Bory is out of favor with Davis. The very reason Johnston got command of the Virginia theatre was because Beauregard had ben sent out west after publically criticising Davis in the papers. He's got no chance of getting command of a major army again after he took time off to restore his health after Corinth.

Longstreet is too junior an officer to get command of the Eastern Theatre after Fair Oaks. The only guy in the Eastern theatre at that point who had distinguished himself for the Confederacy by Fair Oaks was Jackson and he is far from ideal to lead a major Army.

There were two main candidates to command the ANV after Johnston's injury, Lee and Bragg. Lee got the job because he was there at the scene and able to take command immediately but if Lee is out west then Bragg is the likely cadidate to get command of the ANV instead.

What would likely happen then is either Gustavus W. Smith or Samuel Cooper would take temporary command until Bragg could arrive. Smith did take command after Johnston in OTL but suffered a nervous break down and had to be replaced immediately so chances are that Cooper would get temporary command. That or Davis would take command himself.

Davis himself? As insane as the notion sounds I could see him doing just that since no replacement is readily at hand. And no doubt Jefferson Davis would aggressively try and drive McClellan away from Richmond like Lee did.

Of course Bragg would likely get command after that and that would greatly effect Second Manasas, at least how fast Bragg gets around to bringing the rest of the army to Jackson's support. But even if Second Manasas is lost, I doubt Richmond would be falling right away.

For some reason the concept of Longstreet as an army commander has fascinated me. A man truely ahead of his time in tactics.

Back to the west...

Lee in command of the Army of Tennesse is interesting and I agree he would've decisively won a Perryville equivlent against Buell. The 3 Corps system would work perfectly. Breckinridge, Hardee and I gotta say Clebourne after a few battles. Lee wouldn't hold him back in rank just because he's Irish after he's demonstrated he's capable.

Oh it wouldn't alter the outcome of the war, but it is interesting to think about.

Keep em coming guys, thinking about hashing out a TL based on this.

 

[mowque]

As i've read before, the Confederacy could lose the war in the West (IMO they did) but they could never win it out there.

It doesn't really matter who is out there, the South just doesn't have any way of winning out West. Sure they can keep the North at bay longer but what does that achieve? nothing but a war of attrition, just what the North wanted. Only in the East would blockbuster victories mean anything.

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

With Lee in the West, would the ANV get the same kind of cult of personality around their alternative commander?

 

[robertp6165]

Although it may be somewhat less likely, given his relatively junior rank at the time, it might be fun to speculate about Stonewall Jackson...fresh from the success of the Valley Campaign...being given the Army of Northern Virginia when Johnston falls at Seven Pines/Fair Oaks, with Longstreet and Richard Ewell as his "wing" (i.e. corps) commanders.

But the sad thing is, if they don't bring in Beauregard...as Davis probably won't...the command probably goes to...

 

[Kevin in Indy]

Nytram01, I like the idea of Davis calling his own number - that would make for a fun story! Bragg in charge would seem to me to lead to a "Union Victory in 1862" timeline.