Hyper destructive war in western europe

...I am merely wondering what if something similar happened in western europe.
World War One did, at least for the UK. See, for example: pacifism in the UK in the 1920's and 1930's. Also the fact that the UK still marks Armistice Day, every November 11th, and The Haig Fund (also known as 'the poppy appeal'), with its sales of poppy motif material to support causes such as former servicemen, is still going and very active in the runup to every Armistice Day.
 
World War One did, at least for the UK. See, for example: pacifism in the UK in the 1920's and 1930's. Also the fact that the UK still marks Armistice Day, every November 11th, and The Haig Fund (also known as 'the poppy appeal'), with its sales of poppy motif material to support causes such as former servicemen, is still going and very active in the runup to every Armistice Day.
I'm not saying wars had 0 effect on western Europe. But the damage caused was rather less than in the east.

How much damage did the UK sustain on home soil in ww1? I know British soldiers where fighting in trenches on mainland Europe, but I dont recall their being any battles in the Isles.
 
Growing up in Belgium in the 1970's/80's I remember my grade school history class. In the General History Of Our Country department there were two 'really terrible' times. First was the trench war of 1914-18. It was considered more devastating then WWII because 1) it happened in our backyard and 2) unlike WWII, which was for Belgium just 3 weeks of getting clobbered and then 4 years of being occupied, there were actual Belgian troops getting killed in the trenches from the first to the last day. But that aside...

What I wanted to talk about was the second instance of life in Belgium being so terrible. That was the 80-years war, otherwise known as the religious wars, the Reformation wars or 'the 30-years war plus all the fighting that came before it"
In other countries this might just be covered as a prolonged war of independence on behalf of the Dutch with some sideshows by the Swedes and the Royal Navy sticking it to the Spanish Armada. In Belgium, especially in Flanders, it was two, almost three generations of constant civil war, ostensibly between Catholics and Protestants, but actually between constantly shifting bands of marauders more or less part of the Spanish or Oranje armies. And once the fighting had moved away, there was ethnic cleansing and persecution of real and imagined supporters of the previous occupying force. And of course there were burned fields, looted winter supplies, hunger and disease and random acts of rape and torture pretty constantly. And with it going on for nearly 80 years, there were people that had lived through this since childhood and never known things being different, even in the tales of their parents. So that when peace finally came it was a culture shock just as big as 'first contact' would be today.

Of course, this happened between 1560 and 1646 so it does not really fit the post-1900 label, but after witnessing the violence in former Yugoslavia, it isn't such a hard stretch to imagine a 80-years guerrilla war ripping Europe apart from the inside. May be a more violent Communist revolution spreading through Europe in the 1920's, may be victorious Nazi Germany bogged down in a guerrilla war in the East, that eventually spread to the western countries as well? May be a more virulent 1968 with ' Tupamaru'-style city guerillas fighting ever more dictatorial repressive regimes like in South America? May be even the Balcan conflict spreading out into the former Warshaw pact states and eventually the west as well?

Anyway, not sure how it may come about, but just even 15 years of incessant civil war or insurrection by guerilla forces would mess up every country pretty good. The 'modern' European states may be even more than a lot of other, 'second-rate' countries.
 
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I am not creating a death fantasy scenario, goodness no.

It's just that eastern europe sustained insanely high damage in ww2 that left scars still felt today. I am merely wondering what if something similar happened in western europe.

part of the problem was that the germany wanted to remove eastern Europe from history ..Also the east employed scorched earth.

Household news to galvanize the western European nations as they never have been against the german invasion

Not impossible.. But quite difficult.. getting Denmark isn't he Netherlands or Belgium to hold long enough would be tough too.


So have the germans dig in to the point that the West has to shell and bo!b the large cities top and you get a start.

Besides that, it's going to be tough since it was a rapid war in the west and the germans treated them differently as did other western nations
 
... I know British soldiers where fighting in trenches on mainland Europe, but I dont recall their being any battles in the Isles.
As far as I can understand that, by that logic, no German killed outside of Germany on the 'Eastern front' in WW2 counts, or Russian killed outside of Russia...
Unless you're applying 'special rules' for one conflict, which is of interest to you, and to some point which you want to make, and different rules to any other conflict?
 
How much damage did the UK sustain on home soil in ww1? I know British soldiers where fighting in trenches on mainland Europe, but I dont recall their being any battles in the Isles.

So here's where it showed up. One of the darkest features of WWI for the British was that one of the major recruitment efforts was to clump fraternities, schools, neighborhoods, and families all into the same units for camaraderie, which lasted about 2 microseconds once the artillery attacked the unit. Entire British towns got their male populations liquidated by the Western Front, in a single day in some instances.

Put another way, the Western Front was a bit like a crude neutron bomb for the male population of entire British communities, multiple times over.
 
I'm not saying wars had 0 effect on western Europe. But the damage caused was rather less than in the east.

How much damage did the UK sustain on home soil in ww1? I know British soldiers where fighting in trenches on mainland Europe, but I dont recall their being any battles in the Isles.

See, now i and probably a lot of others really want to know what you are insinuating. Because clearly you want to talk about a certain thing but are avoiding it directly. So what is it?

How do you think battle scars actually look like on a country?

You say that the scars of WW2 run deeper for the Soviet Union, okay, but you say that shows because shortly after the war France and the UK were all "buddy buddy" with Germany whilst Eastern Europe held a grudge. Thats got nothing to do with the battle scars my friend. same goes for actual bomb craters on home soil, thats not the kind of scars people talk about.

So what do you really want to say?
 
Are there? I did not think there was much left.
There is a farm in France sitting on the worlds largest UXO (unexplored ordnance). A mine that is primed but didn’t go off. Another went off in the 50’s from a suspected lightning strike. Farmers are still digging up 100 year old UX along with their potatoes.
 
With a pod after 1900, have the most destructive possible war take place in western europe
So you want more of this:

upload_2019-7-15_20-34-10.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Paradis_massacre


...and this:
upload_2019-7-15_20-32-0.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre
...?
 

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Alright. It appears I have vastly underestimated the damage sustained by eastern europe.

Like, the thing with towns having entire Male populations gone in one day. I had no idea of this.
 
Speaking of battle scars, the coverage of the Donbass War in Eastern Ukraine showed me how alive the memory of World War 2 is in that region. The locals were talking like it happened yesterday.
 
With a pod after 1900, have the most destructive possible war take place in western europe. Now, this seems like a dumb question, because plenty of those have happened otl right?

But nothing in western europe has ever matched the carnage that was the Eastern Front of ww2. Would be it be possible to have a post 1900 war in western europe with levels of brutality and carnage seen in the ww2 eastern front?

Maybe an integralist France vs fascist (not nessecarily Nazi) Germany?

What effects would this have in the region, Europe and the world? How would it affect the colonies? How much would it affect the involved countries' positions on the world stage?

T
he carnage of the eastern Front or whatever was less due to fighting and more due to occupation. Simply, you need Germans to behave in France like they did in Poland and Soviet Union
 
T
he carnage of the eastern Front or whatever was less due to fighting and more due to occupation. Simply, you need Germans to behave in France like they did in Poland and Soviet Union
Yeah, could something like this have come about? Like, was there some ideology in Germany that considered Latin people rather than Slavs/Balts/Roma untermensch? If not, then why?

Maybe if France but not Russia had went communist after ww1 it could happen?
 
So here's where it showed up. One of the darkest features of WWI for the British was that one of the major recruitment efforts was to clump fraternities, schools, neighborhoods, and families all into the same units for camaraderie, which lasted about 2 microseconds once the artillery attacked the unit. Entire British towns got their male populations liquidated by the Western Front, in a single day in some instances.

Put another way, the Western Front was a bit like a crude neutron bomb for the male population of entire British communities, multiple times over.
I did not know this. I didn't think Bedford was unique, but this seems to have happened more than I was aware of.

Re the OP: No World War I might work. Imagine if the lessons learned from 1861 to 1865 and 1914 to 1918 were not available in 1939 <Shoo butterflies! SHOO!>. If the massed infantry charge was butchery in 1914, imagine what would happen if the tactics of 1914 were employed against 1939 weaponry at the Seigfried line?
 
Yeah, could something like this have come about? Like, was there some ideology in Germany that considered Latin people rather than Slavs/Balts/Roma untermensch? If not, then why?

Maybe if France but not Russia had went communist after ww1 it could happen?

the holocaust against the slavs had nothing to do with them being communist. As you say, they were considderd "untermenschen" and French people simply were not. However, they were also not considderd equal over Germanics, apparently they had some "bad blood" from mediterranean lines. So, there was a plan to purge French people after the war was over. Purging meaning ethnic cleansing, not murder(unless they resist). If France had been fully occupied and for example the UK had made peace the beginning of large scale deportations could start to take place in France(as well as Belgium and Netherlands). This of course alongside the murder of the "untermenschen".
 
the holocaust against the slavs had nothing to do with them being communist. As you say, they were considderd "untermenschen" and French people simply were not. However, they were also not considderd equal over Germanics, apparently they had some "bad blood" from mediterranean lines. So, there was a plan to purge French people after the war was over. Purging meaning ethnic cleansing, not murder(unless they resist). If France had been fully occupied and for example the UK had made peace the beginning of large scale deportations could start to take place in France(as well as Belgium and Netherlands). This of course alongside the murder of the "untermenschen".
Will, the racial theory was technically independent from the anti communism, but in practice they rhetoric of both was often combined and they where both used as justifications for what happened in the east.
 
part of the problem was that the germany wanted to remove eastern Europe from history ..Also the east employed scorched earth.

Household news to galvanize the western European nations as they never have been against the german invasion

Not impossible.. But quite difficult.. getting Denmark isn't he Netherlands or Belgium to hold long enough would be tough too.


So have the germans dig in to the point that the West has to shell and bo!b the large cities top and you get a start.

Besides that, it's going to be tough since it was a rapid war in the west and the germans treated them differently as did other western nations
There had been this Generalplan West by the Nazis aswell.
 
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