Hal Lindsey’s “The Late, Great Planet Earth” laughed at because of description of Battle of Coral Sea, and DOESN’T influence Reagan and Cap Weinberger

[GeographyDude]

This thrown together book was the Number 1 nonfiction best seller for the 1970s. Although woefully inaccurate about the Battle of Coral Sea (May 7-8, 1942) and presumably many other topics as well, in my judgement it’s a fast read. And it could legitimately be described as well written, helping its popularity on that count.

Reagan was asked about Armageddon in one of his debates with Mondale, and in part he answered:

CPD: October 21, 1984 Debate Transcript

Reagan: “ . . the biblical prophecies of what would portend the coming of Armageddon, and so forth, and the fact that a number of theologians for the last decade or more have believed that this was true, that the prophecies are coming together that portend that. But no one knows whether Armageddon, those prophecies mean that Armageddon is a thousand years away or day after tomorrow. . ”

—————————

What if instead Hal Lindsey is laughed out of the court of public opinion.

How much of a difference would this make on U.S. political and intellectual history?

 

[Geon]

Lindsey was a proponent of what at least one author has termed "pop eschatology". His book led to other such books by pastors and authors seeking to capitalize on his success. Without Lindsey much of this form of "pop eschatology" would never have been written.

Also, Lindsey was a proponent of what is called dispensational pretribulational premillennialism. He popularized the view for this theology which today is considered all but doctrine in many evangelical churches. Without Lindsey bringing it to the forefront other and more varied theological viewpoints on the "end-times" might take hold in evangelicalism.

 

[Resurgam]

Is being wrong about Coral Sea really that big a deal? There are so many issues with the book I don't even remember Coral Sea being in it.

 

[GeographyDude]

page 83:

Wow.

It’s just completely nonhistorical. And then the part about British ships hiding out at Madagascar ? ? It’s like drunken history. It’s like an 8-year-old boy trying to do alternate history.

 

[GeographyDude]

Coral Sea was a relatively indecisive battle which we the U.S. lost on points, although we did knock out two Japanese aircraft carriers for use at Midway, one due to lack of planes.

The Battle of Midway was the turning point of the Pacific Theater.

And it wasn’t just “some sailors” who broke the Japanese code. It was the main codebreaking team at Honolulu, who were somewhat at rivalry with the main Navy codebreakers in Washington, DC. And the Honolulu team arranged for an uncoded message to be sent that Midway was low on fresh water. And that’s how they confirmed they knew the Japanese code word for Midway.

And it was a pretty equal battle. The Japanese had four aircraft carriers. We had three, plus planes from Midway itself. And we had a variety of types of planes. For example, our torpedo planes did not fare well and were pretty much all wiped out. But they ran time off the clock and that was to prove important.

 

[Geon]

And the Japanese naval invasion force wasn't heading for the West Coast they were heading for New Guinea!!

 

[GeographyDude]

Lindsey was a proponent of what at least one author has termed "pop eschatology". His book led to other such books by pastors and authors seeking to capitalize on his success. Without Lindsey much of this form of "pop eschatology" would never have been written.

Also, Lindsey was a proponent of what is called dispensational pretribulational premillennialism. He popularized the view for this theology which today is considered all but doctrine in many evangelical churches. Without Lindsey bringing it to the forefront other and more varied theological viewpoints on the "end-times" might take hold in evangelicalism.

For example, the huge Left Behind series.

You know, with the atomic bomb, and later on the more terrible hydrogen bomb, and I could see how people might think there’d be an entire series of ever more terrible bombs, and with the approaching year 2000, I can see how end-times thinking would have a certain amount of popularity. But Hal made it more popular and affected the contours.

Now about this “dispensational pretribulational premillennialism” — and complex ideas are one thing I love about religion! — this is the idea that Christians will be first raptured to heaven, and then there will be a tribulation for the people “left behind”?

 

[GeographyDude]

Is being wrong about Coral Sea really that big a deal? There are so many issues with the book I don't even remember Coral Sea being in it.

In the real world, you’re right, it wasn’t that big a deal.

But being published in 1970, you’d think people would have more ready knowledge at their fingertips of the details of World War II. And for those who had family members, or close friends or co-workers who served, you’d think it would almost be perceived as a matter of respect to get the details right. But I guess it wasn’t, not in this case.

 

[GeographyDude]

And the Japanese naval invasion force wasn't heading for the West Coast nthey were hading for New Guinea!!

And you’d think that might be a detail people would stumble at and think, Hey, wait a minute, I don’t think there was a serious Japanese plan to attack the West Coast, I think I would have heard of that.

Early in 1942, the Japanese had victories in Hong Kong and Singapore and several other places. They had things going in their favor.

With Coral Sea, the plan was for a port on New Guinea and then I think one specific nearby island.

 

[kmmontandon]

In the real world, you’re right, it wasn’t that big a deal.

But being published in 1970, you’d think people would have more ready knowledge at their fingertips of the details of World War II. And for those who had family members, or close friends or co-workers who served, you’d think it would almost be perceived as a matter of respect to get the details right. But I guess it wasn’t, not in this case.

Pretty sure by 1970 the whole "high altitude Army bombers sank at least some of the Japanese ships at Coral Sea/Midway" myth was already debunked, but he might've ready it in stuff published in the '50s. The rest of the stuff Lindsey got wrong is even more absurd, but that's to be expected from such a complete nutcase.

 

[SOAWWIISoldier]

This reminds me of a book I read some time ago that that has carriers stopping to launch planes! That's when I stopped reading. I wish I could remember the title.

 

[Resurgam]

And the Japanese naval invasion force wasn't heading for the West Coast nthey were hading for New Guinea!!

I take back what I said about "was it that bad?"

That's... pretty bad.

 

[overoceans]

For some reason or other, my otherwise mostly irreligious father developed a passing interest in end-times eschatology in the early 80s: he'd occassionally watch TV shows that talked about it, and even took out a subscription to The Plain Truth(which, being British Israel in its orientation, contradicted most of the other stuff on some key points, but that didn't seem to bother him much).

However, none of this seemed to impact any of his planning for the future, eg. he never advised me to skip university because Jesus would be returning in a few years anyway. For a lot of people who take an interest in pre-mil and whatnot, I think they just sort of compartamentalize it away, separate from everything else in their minds.

I suspect that was probably the case with Reagan, and that he never really allowed his conversations about Lindseyesque eschatology to actually influence his decisions. Sure, he likely believed that God wanted the USSR to fall, and would find some way to make that happen, but he woulda believed that with or without TLGPE.

 

[overoceans]

BTW...

Why was Lindsey talking about the Japanese allegedly trying to sail to the mideast in WW2? Was it to prove that China was capable of doing the same thing? I know from reading Al Hartley's comic book based on Lindsey's theories that the Chinese are supposed to fight at Armageddon(or something).

 

[Geon]

For example, the huge Left Behind series.

You know, with the atomic bomb, and later on the more terrible hydrogen bomb, and I could see how people might think there’d be an entire series of ever more terrible bombs, and with the approaching year 2000, I can see how end-times thinking would have a certain amount of popularity. But Hal made it more popular and affected the contours.

Now about this “dispensational pretribulational premillennialism” — and complex ideas are one thing I love about religion! — this is the idea that Christians will be first raptured to heaven, and then there will be a tribulation for the people “left behind”?

The Left Behind series owes a lot to people like Hal Lindsey.

As for dispensational pretribulational premillennialism - or DPP as I'll refer to it now - simply put the basic ideas behind it are as follows.

1. The true church of Jesus Christ will be "secretly" raptured out of the world at some point in the future. All believers (living and dead) will be translated to heaven.
2. While the believers are in heaven the world will experience the judgments of God foretold in the Book of Revelation. This will include the coming of the Antichrist, the salvation of the state of Israel, and the destruction of over a third of the world's population by various disasters.
3. This will culminate in the Second Coming of Christ who will institute a thousand year reign from Jerusalem. At this time all believers will return with him to earth.
4. At the end of the thousand years (see Rev. 20) Satan is released "for a time". There will be a final rebellion culminating in...
5. The Great White Throne Judgment. The rest of the dead are resurrected for final judgment. The world is then destroyed making way for the new heavens and the new earth of Rev. 21 and 22.

That, in a very simplified form is what DPP is.

 

[Aghasverov]

A few observations on this one...

1) The fact that tripe like this was the non-fiction best seller through the 1970's (presumably in the US?) is a truly frightening thing...

2) That Reagan, a non-evangelical who had to have someone explain to him what the phrase "born-again Christian" meant, was willing to plumb these depths of inanity to help build a broad conservative coalition which forever "tilted" the Republican Party, is disturbing... (anybody remember James Watt?)

3) Not to delve too far into current politics here, but does anybody else here see an unpleasant foretaste of the predisposition of the Religious Right in the US to believe in "alternative facts", truth be damned?

 

[Geon]

BTW...

Why was Lindsey talking about the Japanese allegedly trying to sail to the mideast in WW2? Was it to prove that China was capable of doing the same thing? I know from reading Al Hartley's comic book based on Lindsey's theories that the Chinese are supposed to fight at Armageddon(or something).

Yes @overoceans .

According to Lindsey's weird interpretations China is the Magog spoken of by the prophet Ezekiel. (Ezekiel 38) In Lindsey's book China and Russia combine forces supposedly during the tribulation and launch World War III with the intention to capture Israel. China launches an Asian blitzkrieg that conquers Southeast Asia, India, Iran, Iraq, the Gulf states and finally links up with Russia for a final attack on Israel which is "protected" by the Antichrist and his hosts (being a reunited Europe [think EU]). The Antichrist wins the war then turns on Israel only to be destroyed by Jesus Christ at the Second Coming.

 

[overoceans]

Yes @overoceans .

Thanks.

 

[Geon]

A few observations on this one...

1) The fact that tripe like this was the non-fiction best seller through the 1970's (presumably in the US?) is a truly frightening thing...

2) That Reagan, a non-evangelical who had to have someone explain to him what the phrase "born-again Christian" meant, was willing to plumb these depths of inanity to help build a broad conservative coalition which forever "tilted" the Republican Party, is disturbing... (anybody remember James Watt?)

3) Not to delve too far into current politics here, but does anybody else here see an unpleasant foretaste of the predisposition of the Religious Right in the US to believe in "alternative facts", truth be damned?

@Aghasverov

I can speak from some personal experience. I attended LU (then LBC) in the early 80's. The evangelical wing of voters (I refuse to call them right wing since evangelicals I have discovered tend to occupy different positions in the political spectrum) for the most part accepted Reagan as one of their own. Whether he was or not remains an issue that is debated depending on what side of the political fence you are on.

Consider the atmosphere in the 70's and early 80's. The Cold War was still going on. AIDS was becoming an issue. Abortion was becoming a hotter issue. The question of gay rights was coming into the mainstream. There was growing concern about issues of religious liberty. Honestly in this environment many Christians believed the rapture and the Antichrist werejust around the corner.

 

[overoceans]

BTW, if anyone wants a thumbnail sketch of Lindsey's theories, the comic I mentioned earlier is called There's A New World Coming. I think it's viewable on-line, though I can't seem to find the whole thing right now. Push comes to shove, there's a YouTube video showing the whole thing, scored to Meat Loaf.