IOTL Newfoundland joined Canada in 1949 many years after Canada had already become a Dominion. What POD would be needed for New Zealand to join Australia about the time IOTL, New Zealand became a Dominic?
Dominion of Australiasia
- Thread starter Musketeer513
- Start date
IOTL, Newfoundland did join Canada in 1949, 82 years after Canada became a Dominion.
Yeah, but New Zealand had been a independent dominion for how long by 1949? Forty years?
Newfoundland is tiny and geographically adjacent to Canada, the move was obvious. Why would they suddenly wrench New Zealand around? And how could they? NZ wouldn't just give up their independent status that easily.
Edit: by 1949 New Zealand didn't even consider itself as a Dominion at all!
Ian_W
Banned
You'd need the Colonial Office leaning on New Zealand to join Australia, the same way they leant on Western Australia - but you don't have the threat of admitting Centralia (with all the gold) and leaving WA as a tiny little underfunded rump colony.
So, yeah. 1890s at absolute latest, preferably 1870s. I dunno, maybe Maori Wars that the paheka camer closer to losing but won because of reinforcements from Victoria, Queensland and NSW ?
Newfoundland gave up it's self-governance in 1934 due to the Great Depression which had crushed it's economy, With it being $40 million in debt to Britain, it wasn't very economically strong to begin with, relying on exports of fish, paper and minerals. During the '40s, prosperity returned somewhat when the US built military bases in the region and there was even talk of a economic union with the US. After the war, however, Canada basically gave Newfoundland two options, they could prosper as part of the Confederation of Canada or die alone. After two referendums, the first of which was indecisive, the Newfoundlanders chose the former option.
New Zealand was also hard hit by the Great Depression, but New Zealand was able to recover by building up a welfare state including free healthcare and education and state assistance for the vulnerable like the elderly. This allowed the economy to recover by 1935. Newfoundland was too deep in debt and too economically weak to even attempt reforms of this nature.
New Zealand was also hard hit by the Great Depression, but New Zealand was able to recover by building up a welfare state including free healthcare and education and state assistance for the vulnerable like the elderly. This allowed the economy to recover by 1935. Newfoundland was too deep in debt and too economically weak to even attempt reforms of this nature.
When it comes to the Newfoundland, remember that it taking that long to join Canada was a bit of a fluke. Talks were being finalized in the 1890s for Newfoundland and Labrador to join Canada, but the sudden death of Canadian Prime Minister John Thompson postponed things indefinitely, since his successor, Mackenzie Bowell, was engrossed by the Manitoba School Question and other domestic problems.
If Newfoundland joins Canada in the 1890s, that's a similarly realistic period for Australia and New Zealand to join up, I think.
If Newfoundland joins Canada in the 1890s, that's a similarly realistic period for Australia and New Zealand to join up, I think.
And then the World Wars sort of distracted everyone for 50 years.....
If you want NZ to join Australia, you need a POD in the 19th century, probably somewhere in the 1870s. Later is possible, but harder.
Actually, a decent starting point might be to go with one of the proposals to split New Zealand up into two colonies- probably called New Munster and New Ulster, but which would basically be the South and the North Island.
At the time both areas are much closer in terms of economic, demographic and political weight, so it's possible for both to make a go of it.
Then in the 1880s and 1890s when Federation really gains steam- and Britain is quietly encouraging the colonies to consolidate- it's much more natural for two small New Zealand colonies to join, rather than one big and fairly economically separate one.
That last part is the key, really- NZ was far more closely linked to the UK than the other Australian colonies. It simply wasn't affected by the same considerations about intercolonial tariffs that so exercised the other colonies. It certainly shared their concern about security in the Pacific, though, so a major war scare with Germany or France would help.
But it's not going to join in the twentieth century, certainly not past, say, 1906 (Richard Seddon was both a key opponent of NZ joining the Commonwealth, but probably also the only figure with enough political clout that he could have changed the colonys' course at that late stage.)
Actually, a decent starting point might be to go with one of the proposals to split New Zealand up into two colonies- probably called New Munster and New Ulster, but which would basically be the South and the North Island.
At the time both areas are much closer in terms of economic, demographic and political weight, so it's possible for both to make a go of it.
Then in the 1880s and 1890s when Federation really gains steam- and Britain is quietly encouraging the colonies to consolidate- it's much more natural for two small New Zealand colonies to join, rather than one big and fairly economically separate one.
That last part is the key, really- NZ was far more closely linked to the UK than the other Australian colonies. It simply wasn't affected by the same considerations about intercolonial tariffs that so exercised the other colonies. It certainly shared their concern about security in the Pacific, though, so a major war scare with Germany or France would help.
But it's not going to join in the twentieth century, certainly not past, say, 1906 (Richard Seddon was both a key opponent of NZ joining the Commonwealth, but probably also the only figure with enough political clout that he could have changed the colonys' course at that late stage.)