Thanks for reading everyone! I really appreciate the comments.
There is some great discussion going on here and some very interesting points raised. I will try my best to address the discussion regarding the situation following the immediate aftermath of the revolution and the level of 'reactionary' resistance that follows. Much of this will be covered in the next two updates which will be posted up over the next couple of weeks (I'm planning to post the first of these updates tomorrow). As these updates will cover the situation in some detail, I'll just offer a broad overview of the situation. Other upcoming updates will cover the impact of the revolution in Ireland and across the Empire.
I think it's important to divide the British military into two distinct groups in this timeline: the forces stationed within Britain and the forces stationed across the empire (it's important to note that the forces stationed in Britain itself were rather small in number, particularly for the army - a vast majority of Britain's military forces were stationed across the Empire). As noted in a previous update, the forces in Britain were 'quarantined' from the empire by the Imperial General Staff as these forces were directly exposed to growing working class radicalism, and as a result pro-working class sympathies spread across the lower ranks. As such, from that point onwards, no new units/ships were brought into Britain and no units/ships left Britain. Although some might see this as a mistake not to reinforce the army in Britain, the Imperial General Staff were extremely concerned that the revolutionary agitation could spread across the Empire like wildfire, so policy was to contain it within Britain itself.
Following the revolution, this policy was vindicated as British forces outside of Britain remain loyal (for the most part - there will be a few isolated examples of agitation and mutiny). However, a majority of the army and navy stationed in Britain will defect to the new revolutionary regime, which can be attributed to the following:
1) The officer ranks of the British forces at the time were very much dominated by the aristocracy, so there was resentment amongst the lower ranks as there were limited pathways to merit-based advancement, and aristrocratic officers were often seen as incompetent. Although merit promotion had improved during the war due to the needs of of a mass conscript army, it retreated to its old habits quickly once peace returned.
3) Long-standing grievances about conditions, particularly in the Navy - these grievances were largely treated with disdain and ignored by officers.
4) Radicalisation efforts - in particular with the Navy, radical unionists and socialists
were able to infiltrate the lower ranks and stir up trouble. While in OTL instances of this were limited, in this timeline it is far more common due to the more organised, mobilised and radicalised working class movement which was lead by the NACLM.
5) Many of the rank and file within the army in Britain were appalled by the brutal actions perpetrated by the Auxies, creating resentment and anger towards the Government.
6) Of the research I have conducted, the view of the Imperial General Staff at the time was was that most of the army units in the British Isles were second and third line units whose value and reliability was limited (such as the Territorials). As such, the best trained troops and the most capable officers were stationed throughout the Empire and generally not within Britain itself. As a result of this, in this timeline the morale of British based troops was generally lower than those stationed across the Empire, and this was exacerbated by the growing tension and troubles in Britain leading up to the Revolution.
A significant number of soldiers and sailors will also simply go AWOL - they don't see much point in fighting the revolutionaries but don't particularly want to join the revolution either, or are worried about the safety of their families - so they simply abandon their posts and go home.
That being said, there will also be a lot of determined resistance across Britain following the revolution, although this will tend to be localised resistance, with no central orgnisation or command. As such, there will be no civil war in Britain itself. Resistance from loyalist soldiers and sailors will generally be suppressed pretty quickly in the ports and major cities, but there will be widespread resistance in a number of provincial towns across Britain, particularly in England. Concerned citizens armed with anything they can find, along with police officers and remnants of loyalist army units will form local defence groups in a number of towns to protect themselves from the revolution. This resistance may last some months, but the revolutionary forces will eventually be able to suppress this.
I think it's important to point out that H.M Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland does not simply cease to exist after the revolution. The British Government will be able to draw on the support of the still loyal British Empire and Dominions - so I suppose it could be argued that there will be a civil war of sorts between Revolutionary Britain and the rest of the British Empire - but as noted previously, there will be no Russian style civil war in Britain itself. All of this and more will be covered in much more detail in the coming updates
theirishdreamer said:
And wholly crap things went down hill fast! THough logical why it did.
Indeed, things escalted very quickly during the turbulent summer of 1925!
e350tb said:
And there it goes - the Revolution has begun. I have a feeling a lot of notable people are going to suffer a few nasty ends before it's all over...
Incidentally, what's happening with the railways? Did the grouping go ahead?
Yes quite a few notable figures of the British Establishment will get caught up in the revolution and will suffer at the hands of revolutionaries. Although Britain was one of the most advanced industrialised nations in the world at the time, it won't be immune to the violence and bloodshed that always follows such upheavel.
Yes, the grouping into the ‘Big Four’ occurred as OTL however the exact structure of the railways after the revolution has not been decided upon yet. Quite what direction they take for example will depend on who ends up influencing them – eg Henry Fowler and his small engine policy or something more akin to Robinson’s ROD 2-8-0 (which the NSWGR’s stalwart D50 class was of a similar design). Indeed, there might even be attempts at producing a set of standard designs, much like we saw OTL post war to more powerful, modern designs.
eliphas8 said:
So now that they've taken the nation effectively what will the international ramifications be?
The revolution will have some major international ramifications. I don't want to get into too much detail at this stage (I'm trying to avoid spoilers as much as possible!
) as this will be covered in upcoming updates, but the revolution will ripple across the Channel and cause some problems in Europe, particularly in France and Germany. It will also have a major impact on the Empire of course, which will be covered in a future update (to be posted sometime in the next few weeks) that will specifically address the impact on the Empire. I think it's safe to say that with the fall of Britain, the Dominions will be taking on a much larger role in the empire's affairs. There will also be a lot of trouble and unrest in British India.
Edward Elric said:
I'm curious as to what Moscow's reaction to Red Britain will be. IIRC, the Left Opposition to Stalin is still active, so a Western nation experiencing a revolution would give those opposed to the "Socialism in One Country" policy much more strength. Uncle Joe will probably still come out on top in the power struggle, but it'd be harder for his regime to go about conducting a Great Purge.
Good point Edward Elric. I'm no expert in Soviet history during this period, but from my understanding the "Socialism in One Country" doctrine was still very much in the early stages in 1925 and was only officially adopted as Soviet policy in 1926. So I think that Stalin could quietly back away from it, because the Soviet leadership would be very excited about the revolution in Britain and the possibilities it creates. The notion that it's not the right time for revolution in Western industrialised nations has been shot out of the water, so Moscow will see this an opportunity to squeeze Europe from two sides with the help of Socialist Britain. Of course Stalin will very much want to see Britain fall into line and blindly follow Moscow's orders. And yes, it will also complicate internal Soviet politicsm perhaps making it more difficult for Stalin to suppress his opposition. How this all plays out will be revealed in time.
sharlin said:
Great stuff! Lets just hope its not a stalinist UK. I'm supprised the King and Royal Family don't try to flee to Canada.
King Henry said:
Fleeing to France initially makes sense, staying closer to the situation to try and manage things. Fleeing to Canada would only really make sense once the King has accepted that Britain is lost, at least in the short term.
Also, the Imperial General Staff mentioned that the Navy was seeing lots of defections. So, you know, might might want to minimize long-term travel on whatever ship they grabbed well in port.
Thanks sharlin and King Henry for the comments. Britain has a number of paths it can take after the revolution. Which road it takes, you'll have to keep reading and find out.
As you point out King Henry, France makes sense as the initial refuge due to its close proximity to Britain and the need to minimise travel for safety reasons. At a later stage there is a good chance the King and his family will move elsewhere, Canada the most likely option.
Lt.Gen 767 said:
First of all I'd like to say 'well done' to Lord Brisbane. This is a well written timeline with a premise that is both plausible and original. Frankly I'm a little surprised that nobody, to my knowledge, has written a 'Britain goes communist' TL before now. Though I'm also thankful, if one had been Lord Brisbane mightn't have decided to write this one.
I also want to know: are you going to keep this TL focused on Britain or are you going to expand its scope and explore that world wide changes that come from the British Revolution?
Thanks Lt.Gen 767
I've read a few of T/L's here about Britain 'going red'. As mentioned by Iddt3,
Fight and Be Right by EdT I've found to be a great read. The world that was created and explored in the
World of Fight and Be Right was also very interesting.
I am keeping the focus on Britain, however the rest of the world will be explored in future updates. The ramifications of the British revolution are tremendous and will be felt across the world.
Unkown said:
All hell breaks loose now...
Lord Brisbane, you have Chapter IV on two separate chapters, so the second Chapter IV should be Chapter V and Chapter V should be Chapter VI.
Other than that, good timeline.
As Bart Scott (an American football player) once said: Can't wait!!!
Hi Unknown. Chapter IV is actually a two parter. I just couldn’t cram all the detail into a single post without compromising what I was writing! Thanks for the kind words. There’s plenty more to come.
Ptolemy IV said:
Yes I'm really looking forward to more! Great stuff Lord Brisbane.
Thanks Ptolemy IV. The next update should be ready to be posted up tomorrow.
Also just a correction: in the previous update Portsmouth was named as the port where the King was evacuated to before fleeing to France. This should have been Dover and has been corrected.
