8mm to the Left: If Hitler Died in 1923
- Thread starter KaiserKatze
- Start date
The true Megali Idea is already dead at this point, it died with the thousands fleeing Anatolia, but I have been considering the idea of ending Greco-Bulgarian enmity by giving them a shared enemy in the Turks. It would also potentially serve to push Turkey towards a more dangerous ideology, which is an interesting idea in its own right.
But I am not sure how feasible such a war over Cyprus would be. Even if Britain is willing to hand Cyprus to the Greeks, which is already something that would be tricky to make believable, they definitely wouldn't give Turkey any reason to think that they could contest that successfully.
What is Oswlad Spengler is up to? He was a revolutionary conservative who didnt get well with Nazjs, so it seems that vL-V government would be fitting his worldview at least partially.
He died jn May 1936, but that was a heart stroke, so arguably that is a thing that could've been butterflied.
He died jn May 1936, but that was a heart stroke, so arguably that is a thing that could've been butterflied.
Spengler is on a list of political theorists and philosophers whose opinions I think would be super interesting to see relative to this world, but whose raw theorising and opinions I both don't feel that I can organically fit in, nor do I see myself as capable of taking their life's work of theory and developing it further in a fictional world.
I see him as being more positive towards Lettow-Vorbeck than to Hindenburg, but also finding the man to be, ideologically, another flavour of the same old-fashioned and archaic Prussian who created the Great War. I am no expert in his philosophy, but as far as I understand it, he was more the proponent of someone like Stresemann or another temperate nationalist with socialist tendencies.
Yes, but I do see them handing it over to Greece eventually, since, unlike Malta, the Greek Cypriots felt a strong bond to their mainland counterparts and sought union. If Britain gets their naval bases, I don't think they would be that averse, especially if it strengthens an ally opposite potential threats like the Soviets or Italians or French in Syria.
Such a handover would inevitably bring conflict since Turkey also has its eyes on the island
Wonder if the USSR wouldn't support Turkey here against "British Imperialism and it's Greek puppets", especially if it seems Bulgaria and Greece are making common cause against turkey
That was actually what I was thinking, and Turkey DID have good relations with them during this era.
A big part of why I brought it up was in hopes that my more Turkey-informed readers (and people with a good idea of politics in Greece and Turkey during the 1930's era, since this is basically an extended interwar) could back up or shoot down this idea before it gets to a point where it becomes crucial.
If Britain handed Cyprus to the Greeks and the Turks on the island suffered from it, I imagined a situation where Turkey makes a play for the island like IRL, believing that the Western public support for their opppressed people will keep this a limited war, and it blows up more than they expected.
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
if there is a second greco-turkish war, Bulgaria might join the greek side just to regain a piece of claim lost in the seocnd balkan war.
also to expel all the turks if they act "sus"
If Greece and Turkey are fighting, Bulgaria would be able to gain from either. But if Britain backs Greece, and Germany makes it clear that it won't tolerate Bulgarian opportunism against the "victimised" power, I could see Bulgaria--very reluctantly, mind you--setting aside their potential, likely perpetually unfulfilled claims on Western Thrace in exchange for the city of Edirne and a treaty guaranteeing that they will no longer be trapped behind the Bosporous.
Plus a Bulgaria which doesn't have to worry about its South is one which can turn greater attention onto Yugoslavia and Romania
Personally, I think that’s even worse of an option, because now you have two powerful groups who notably don’t like each other squabbling inside one country rather than two. There’s potential there for a Yugoslav style breakup.
I would love to see a Yugoslav style break up just bc of how different it is from our usual understanding of India and the politics of the nation.
It could be possible for a war to be fought over Aegean Island disputes, possibly Rhodes (which was controlled by Italy since the Italo-Turkish War. Perhaps when Italy gets beat, the UK seizes the island and then launches a referendum over which country Rhodes should join. One thing leads to another and Greece and Turkey are at war.
I like that idea. I don't think it would directly lead to the war, but I could see it bringing up questions about why Cyprus doesn't get the same right to choose.
Cyprus is one of those colonies that I think Britsin was always going to lose, it just depended on if it happened in a way which benefited them
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
i mean, bulgaria can gain more from propaganda about " help our orthodox brothers against the turks".
it might even help them finally find a long lasting peace witht he greeks, maybe with a craiova like treaty?
I disagree with this tbh, the turn to violence wasn't inevitable and with the right chances(such as no WW2) and the Indian National Congress being more willing to play ball with the Muslim League and have India be more of a federation style of governing could help sway a lot of Muslims to their side, ensuring the INC looks like they're giving good deals and a united India while the "radical" Muslim League look unreasonable and wants a balkanized India which can be easily controlled via indirect manners by the British
That was my hope. Those two are pitted against each other so much that I thought it could be interesting to explore a warming relationship (if this idea works out)
Note that Greece and Turkey were allied between 1930 and 1955 for real. This broke down due to Cyprus of course. The question someone needs to answer is whether Turkey, which did not much care for Cyprus over the preceding decades got interested in Cyprus because the British brought it into the mess during the EOKA struggle as a way to counterbalance the Greeks/mess up things and hopefully keep the colony or would had gotten interested anyway due to strategic proximity.
In the former case if it is Britain handling Cyprus to Greece you don't have much of a Turkish reaction, some in Ankara won't like it but that's about it, the Turkish minority is not doing any worse than the one in Thrace under Lausanne. In the latter case I can't see direct Turkish intervention in the face of a British handover but things will be going downhill from there afterwards particularly if Greece has already gotten the Dodecanese from Italy.
If it helps, Turkey won't be gaining Hatay from France, and I figure that this triggers a slow movement towards frustration with the Great Powers for not recognising or supporting any of Turkey's claims. Add that to a potentially different resolution to the Straits, less willing to recognise Turkish sovereignty...