Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War

[Red_Galiray]

Here it is, the epilogue of the First Part of the TL. After almost five years, I have finally, finally completed Part 1. It's certainly been a complete journey. I did not expect the level of support this little project of mine would get. It has simply blown me away. When I started it, I thought 30 likes would be a massive success. Now, the usual number is around 160, and some have reached over 190 likes. Plus plages of discussion and many, many comments showing appreciation for the TL. I'm deeply grateful for all this support. Thank you, to everyone who has ever read this or commented, from the bottom of my heart. I never thought I would end up writing one of this site's most popular stories, something I say with no vanity but a humble admittance of how unexpected this success has been.

So, where do we go on from here? On to Reconstruction, of course! I will create a new thread, leaving this one for further discussion and some bonus content. The first update of part 2, Reconstruction: The Second American Revolution, will probably take about as long as a regular update of this TL used to take - that is, some four to six weeks, given the level of research. The second part will focus on the US, especially its social, economic, and political reconstruction, analyzing to the best of my ability this alternate and more successful Reconstruction. Don't worry, we'll also take a closer look at the treason trials and other issues - this was but a teaser, to wet the apetite.

Here, I planned for a few more updates:

- Mini-update looking at the Kirby Smithdom from its establishment to the end.
- Battles and campaigns of the Civil War - a summary of the most important campaigns ITTL.
- Leaders and Generals - brief sketches of the most important characters of the TL.
- Fun-facts and alternate scenarios - just in case anyone is interested in a sort of "making of" of this TL.

This thread is also open to any contribution anyone might want to make, such as stories and further discussion. Over the next few weeks, I shall also post "updated and revised" versions of the chapters in the finished timelines forum. Finally, I will look into publishing this as a book.

Again, thank you for accompanying me in this journey. See you soon!

 

[Ryan lozano]

So ends Book One of a Socalist USA

 

[Whiteshore]

And so this TL ends.

 

[Whiteshore]

Here, I planned for a few more updates:

- Mini-update looking at the Kirby Smithdom from its establishment to the end.
- Battles and campaigns of the Civil War - a summary of the most important campaigns ITTL.
- Leaders and Generals - brief sketches of the most important characters of the TL.
- Fun-facts and alternate scenarios - just in case anyone is interested in a sort of "making of" of this TL.

Maybe you could focus on them first before moving on to Reconstruction updates and this thread reaching 500 pages?

 

[Simeon]

So ends Book One of a Socalist USA

or a Corporatist one if the author feel like being cruel, if not pessimistic

 

[JustinTexas]

Here it is, the epilogue of the First Part of the TL. After almost five years, I have finally, finally completed Part 1. It's certainly been a complete journey. I did not expect the level of support this little project of mine would get. It has simply blown me away. When I started it, I thought 30 likes would be a massive success. Now, the usual number is around 160, and some have reached over 190 likes. Plus plages of discussion and many, many comments showing appreciation for the TL. I'm deeply grateful for all this support. Thank you, to everyone who has ever read this or commented, from the bottom of my heart. I never thought I would end up writing one of this site's most popular stories, something I say with no vanity but a humble admittance of how unexpected this success has been.

So, where do we go on from here? On to Reconstruction, of course! I will create a new thread, leaving this one for further discussion and some bonus content. The first update of part 2, Reconstruction: The Second American Revolution, will probably take about as long as a regular update of this TL used to take - that is, some four to six weeks, given the level of research. The second part will focus on the US, especially its social, economic, and political reconstruction, analyzing to the best of my ability this alternate and more successful Reconstruction. Don't worry, we'll also take a closer look at the treason trials and other issues - this was but a teaser, to wet the apetite.

Here, I planned for a few more updates:

- Mini-update looking at the Kirby Smithdom from its establishment to the end.
- Battles and campaigns of the Civil War - a summary of the most important campaigns ITTL.
- Leaders and Generals - brief sketches of the most important characters of the TL.
- Fun-facts and alternate scenarios - just in case anyone is interested in a sort of "making of" of this TL.

This thread is also open to any contribution anyone might want to make, such as stories and further discussion. Over the next few weeks, I shall also post "updated and revised" versions of the chapters in the finished timelines forum. Finally, I will look into publishing this as a book.

Again, thank you for accompanying me in this journey. See you soon!

This is the best alternate history of the civil war I’ve ever read! Can’t wait for the part 2 story of this! Keep up the good work!

 

[Sublime Truth]

This has truly been one of the most well-written, engaging timelines I have ever read.

I can't wait for what awaits the future.

 

[Arnold d.c]

Bravo, bravo to an accomplished endeavor of 5 years!

I'll be honest and say that prior to this TL, I didn't really understand the appeal of waiting for a story that will come out piecemeal and over years. But the engagement in discussion and anticipation really opened my eyes to it. This has truly been one of the most engaging TLs I have read to date and cannot wait to see what comes next.

the Reconstructed government of Mississippi ratified the 13th amendment

Hey, they might be last again but at least this time they didn't take until 1993 to actually ratify it.

On the hanging of Confederate generals and senators, I will interested to know if it was done by civilian or military court and its implications for secession. A military court could definitely convict any Confederate leader while a civilian court, which had to take place where the crime took place, had the risk of a Confederate sympathizer making their way into the jury and refusing to convict Confederate leaders on trial, which was the main reason why Stanton and other cabinet members favored military court IOTL. I could see there being way less sympathy, allowing for a trial in civilian court to take place. But if it is military, it does create a concerning precedent - that the government uses its military arm to charge treason as it pleases.

 

[Whiteshore]

On the hanging of Confederate generals and senators, I will interested to know if it was done by civilian or military court and its implications for secession. A military court could definitely convict any Confederate leader while a civilian court, which had to take place where the crime took place, had the risk of a Confederate sympathizer making their way into the jury and refusing to convict Confederate leaders on trial, which was the main reason why Stanton and other cabinet members favored military court IOTL. I could see there being way less sympathy, allowing for a trial in civilian court to take place. But if it is military, it does create a concerning precedent - that the government uses its military arm to charge treason as it pleases.

I could see many view it as a “pick your poison” situation in terms of the downsides of trying them before a civilian vs military court, with what you mentioned between the choices of a Confederate sympathizer weaseling into the jury vs the precedent military tribunals would have, which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if we have a situation where politicians are tried in civilian courts while generals in military courts as a compromise.

 

[ComradeSimmington]

Bravo! Look forward to the new thread

 

[farmerted555]

Surprised captains of Rebel commerce raiders weren't hanged for piracy. Also, what becomes of His Imperial Japanese Majesty's Ship Kōtetsu (aka CSS Stonewall)?

 

[Rinasoir]

Will definitely be interested in some of the "making of" segments. It's always interesting to see why people settle on what particular paths they want to trundle down and explore.

 

[Ragedit]

Congratulations mate. As I've said before, one of the best timelines I've read in the site. I simply cannot wait for what you've planned. It truly is a joyous and mournful day, the first part is now complete, but that means no more full-length updates here. And maybe even less General Thomas! What a shame.

But I still have a big grin on my face, because I've thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish. Simply a fantastic story. Once again, congratulations! And good luck! I'll be watching what's next with patience.

 

[sparkptz]

So ends Book One of a Socalist USA

I'm still not really convinced this is especially likely; especially because the smallholding landowner class has been both massively enlarged and empowered by the addition of the vast majority of the formerly enslaved, and they have been yet again enshrined in national ideology - of which there can now be no question exists - as the principal upholders of the Republic. The overwhelming weight of historical evidence says that this class is deeply anti-socialist. I think the US is going to remain deeply liberal in its outlook, albeit one with a much more powerful, muscular and happily interventionist state at the top compared to OTL.

It also fundamentally changed the dynamics of power – never again would the South domineer over the Federal government as it once did, but instead the US entered a period of Northern, and more specifically Republican, dominance.

If this happens I suspect it'll because it'll be the end of the South as a unified political bloc capable of coordinating actions between common social institutions and the State governments, not because it remains depopulated. I think the North will ensure that the South remains politically divided itself and never again able to unite to pose a threat to the Union under any circumstances (particularly if the bandit and anti-Black, counterrevolutionary terrorism persists, leading to prolonged military occupation) but nevertheless I'd expect the place to repopulate pretty quickly - although it'll be a very different looking, much more cosmopolitan South than pre-Revolution.

 

[Dragonboy]

@Red_Galiray ! AMAZING! you're the GOAT! Can't wait For the second part! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

 

[Name123]

GOAT

I'm sincerely confused because calling someone a goat does not sound like a compliment ?

 

[Dragonboy]

I'm sincerely confused because calling someone a goat does not sound like a compliment ?

Greatest of all Time

 

[Name123]

Greatest of all Time

Ok

Here it is, the epilogue of the First Part of the TL. After almost five years, I have finally, finally completed Part 1. It's certainly been a complete journey. I did not expect the level of support this little project of mine would get. It has simply blown me away. When I started it, I thought 30 likes would be a massive success. Now, the usual number is around 160, and some have reached over 190 likes. Plus plages of discussion and many, many comments showing appreciation for the TL. I'm deeply grateful for all this support. Thank you, to everyone who has ever read this or commented, from the bottom of my heart. I never thought I would end up writing one of this site's most popular stories, something I say with no vanity but a humble admittance of how unexpected this success has been.

Successful internet authors tend to be surprised by their success, in my experience. Otherwise good job.

 

[New Potomac]

Over 650,000 Union soldiers died in the struggle to maintain the nation, and a further 500,000 Confederate soldiers, most of disease. Famine, anarchy, and disease, extending beyond the end of the war, all claimed some 100,000 civilians in Union-areas, while over 500,000 thousand Confederate civilians died. The 1.8 million people that died in the war represented 5.8% of the US population, and, staggeringly, over 10% of the Confederate population and over 40% of its White males of military age.

And here you can see how your story earns its title.

It's often been remarked that this civil war has been a far bloodier affair, and now we have some firm numbers as to how. Double to triple, depending on the estimate, the number of deaths compared to OTL, most especially in the South.

 

[Whiteshore]

I'm still not really convinced this is especially likely; especially because the smallholding landowner class has been both massively enlarged and empowered by the addition of the vast majority of the formerly enslaved, and they have been yet again enshrined in national ideology - of which there can now be no question exists - as the principal upholders of the Republic. The overwhelming weight of historical evidence says that this class is deeply anti-socialist. I think the US is going to remain deeply liberal in its outlook, albeit one with a much more powerful, muscular and happily interventionist state at the top compared to OTL.

On that note, you reminded me of Barrington Moore's argument that the secret to liberalism is a "rural middle class" of independent small farmers with how he argued that the roots of the Fascist and Socialist state lies in the landed elite (with the Fascist state being something he argued was the product of a repressive system of peasant exploitation squeezing the peasantry for more money "getting out of control" while he argued that socialist states came from situations in which the peasantry suffering under a landed elite (as opposed to the bourgeois) violentry overthrew the landed elite).