Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
I am quite curious how ITTL Checkmate Lincolnites would have as video topics.
I'm hoping ITTL, Checkmate Lincolnites doesn't need to exist. ITTL Atun-Shei probably just makes more Cannibal-western videos.
I mean that would be nice but at the same time that would mean the loss of Frozen 50s Man and the Witchfinder General.
The Witchfinder General against the Nazi Roommate still makes me laugh out loud.
"Me work here is done"
The Union narrator comes back in.
"Okay, what happened?"
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Hate to admit I wasn't fully sold on the Witchfinder General until the Salem episode.
I think those could still emerge, even if Checkmate Lincolnites did, though Frozen 50s man would have less racism from the MC, presumably.
I'm sure the Know Nothings and other Nativist factions will stir up in the defeat of the Slavocracy, though how effective they will be in actually carrying out their goals depends on how the Republican Party tackles immigration, especially from predominantly Catholic countries or in Asian countries in the East (whose peoples will be the target of the Know Nothings' ire).
If they go with the Nativist route (with limited immigration of Catholics/Jews and a total immigration ban on Chinese/Japanese migrants) then that means they will have to rely on free Black Labor even more than ever, which could be an interesting road to take, though it will increase tensions between the white & black communities as a result.
What's funny is the possibility of Black Americans being virulently anti-immigrant, as they'd see European Catholics as much of a threat to their way of life as White Americans do due to their shared Protestant faith while Asian coolies directly compete with them for labor, so I can see the Know Nothings take advantage of that for votes.
If that's the case, then that might cause Black Americans to join the Know Nothings since coolies would actually be a threat to freedmen's livelihoods by taking labor opportunities in the South or in the West.
On the flipside, we might get a more vibrant Chinatown in places like Atlanta, Houston, Austin, or New Orleans which would be kinda cool.
That's also something to consider, but I'm still hopeful that claims of black inferiority due to biological/racial factors by Europeans or White Americans will be directly challenged or even fall away due to the continued enfranchisement and education of Black Americans.
It also allows for a kind of Clean Wehrmach myth to take root. Lots of "oh my grandfather wasn't one of the BAD Confederates, he was one of the good ones who would've totally freed the slaves if given some more time!"
But hell, I'd take that over Lost Cause myths just like Clean Wehrmach people are better than Holocaust Deniers. So even if a lot of whitewashing of the pre-coup CSA happens, having people acknowledge later on that the post-cpup CSA was a horror show would be a good bit better than OTL.
So just for fun I counted how many words we've reached and, counting only full chapters up to the last update, we're at over 260,000 words. That's insane! This thing is truly long. It makes me thing, often people won't read something because catching up seems so daunting. I would totally hesitate to read a work with, like, 100,000 words, which is longer than the average novel. This TL by now must be in that category too.
Was the common Southern soldier fighting for slavery? (Analyzing commitment of the ranks and file rebels to slavery and White supremacy, in the same vein how some say most German soldiers weren't committed to Nazism).
Was Lee truly undefeated? (Examining the idea that Lee was never truly defeated on the field, with the rebuke that Union Mills was a complete defeat and Grant triumphed strategically and tactically).
Was Breckinridge a "good Confederate"?
Was the Union more destructive than the Confederacy?
Funnily enough, Atun-Shei's Johnny Reb kind of fits the profile of the "Clean Confederate" we've discussed. Johnny Reb in the videos never outright defends slavery, insists that the Confederacy was fighting for hearth and home, is disturbed when the more appalling actions of many Confederates are shown, and is altogether not that bad. ITTL he would totally be the Confederate that says "Míster Breckinridge was not fighting for slavery but because he loved freedom! He cared for us and stood up to the greedy planters because he loved us so much. And as soon as they stabbed him on the back I realized our cause, our true cause, was dead."
God I love Atun Shei.
Maybe he would be remembered similarly to that guy who made both chemical weapons and fertilizers? Like his invention helped, but it also had indirect dreadful consequences.
All my sources are digital. Really hard to get a physical textbook in English about the Civil War here, you know? So it's copy pasted. That said, I'm of course not above typos. English is my second language and I don't have a proofreader so there are probably a lot of typos elsewhere. In most quotes, however, they are probably not my own.
Exactly my intention.
Something like:
Was the common Southern soldier fighting for slavery? (Analyzing commitment of the ranks and file rebels to slavery and White supremacy, in the same vein how some say most German soldiers weren't committed to Nazism).
Was Lee truly undefeated? (Examining the idea that Lee was never truly defeated on the field, with the rebuke that Union Mills was a complete defeat and Grant triumphed strategically and tactically).
Was Breckinridge a "good Confederate"?
Was the Union more destructive than the Confederacy?
Funnily enough, Atun-Shei's Johnny Reb kind of fits the profile of the "Clean Confederate" we've discussed. Johnny Reb in the videos never outright defends slavery, insists that the Confederacy was fighting for hearth and home, is disturbed when the more appalling actions of many Confederates are shown, and is altogether not that bad. ITTL he would totally be the Confederate that says "Míster Breckinridge was not fighting for slavery but because he loved freedom! He cared for us and stood up to the greedy planters because he loved us so much. And as soon as they stabbed him on the back I realized our cause, our true cause, was dead."
God I love Atun Shei.
There are idiots who defend the Nazis ITTL, and there are many myth that less informed people believe that need videos like Atun-Shei's to be debunked. I can't butterfly idiocy.
I'm definitely gonna check it out. The idea of a socialist US has always intrigued me.
Yes, it's true that we may ironically see more racism and prejudice in African Americans against other groups. They may turn up their nose at the Irish as "rebel sympathizers", may resist Chinese immigration as competition, and could become partners with Whites in the colonization of Native Americans.
In the short run we need something like that to conciliate many rebels. They seeing the Confederate past as something shameful that they totally didn't take part in is still better than taking pride in it and outright defending it.
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In many ways, winning the peace requires some compromises, even with this more radical civil war, to win over "fairweather Confederates" to the Union cause, even if there would always be bitter-enders that need to be dealt with.
This is absolutely somewhat tangential, but I wonder if the increased militarisation (literally more of them in the army/under arms) and militancy (I can't help but feel like they'll be a stronger feeling of 'We won our rights because we fought for them', with the attendant conclusion 'and so we must continue to fight for them') would lead to the founding of Black-owned arms companies.
(Sorry, I'm a historical gun nerd.)
(Sorry, I'm a historical gun nerd.)
I don't see any reason why not. A good start might be to look through all the contracts the army did to see if there was already any freedmen manufacturers or gun designers who's luck you could tweak, otherwise maybe you could cook up a fictional freedman that had been involved with confederate arms production that, post war, uses his talents to start their own company
You might find some source material here. Also, James M. Jones, who was born a slave in North Carolina, was a highly regarded gunsmith in Canada; maybe ITTL, he can be persuaded to return to the United States.
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So, i've done some digging and it appears that Francis Dangerfield was a partner in the Lefever Arms Company which was founded in the 1880s. I've found some evidence he was African-American (though it seems his partner, who was the skilled gun maker, was white) though I'd want to see more evidence before I state this with any certainty.
You may also want to check out:
Negros and the Gun; the Black Tradition of Arms
by: Nicholas Johnson
I haven't read it myself so I dont know how useful it would be - but it's come up when I did some digging on this topic.
Look, if I'm being particularly honest, a lot depends on the particulars of Reconstruction, but if we're talking about a more equitable Reconstruction? I don't see the Freedmen as the ones most likely to be supported in expanding to the West. I see the surviving planters as the most interested, trying to use whatever small portion of their wealth as they can to buy up land in the West and get out before the Freedmen or the Poor Whites come for them.
The Federal Government would be incentivized to offer that for them in exchange for an oath of loyalty and be able to control where exactly they resettle and how much money it actually costs them, but it makes the restructuring of the South much, much easier and also, in recognition of other 1800s racism, further builds on US control over the interior of the continent.
It also presents the best case scenario for at least some Native American nations, as they can correctly point out that the US government is choosing between traitors to it and those who haven't betrayed their treaties. A kind of Planter Scare in terms of land sales might force greater restraint onto the US Congress that works to the advantage of the remaining larger tribes.
That said, I'm making a lot of assumptions and mostly plot-based speculations.
The Federal Government would be incentivized to offer that for them in exchange for an oath of loyalty and be able to control where exactly they resettle and how much money it actually costs them, but it makes the restructuring of the South much, much easier and also, in recognition of other 1800s racism, further builds on US control over the interior of the continent.
It also presents the best case scenario for at least some Native American nations, as they can correctly point out that the US government is choosing between traitors to it and those who haven't betrayed their treaties. A kind of Planter Scare in terms of land sales might force greater restraint onto the US Congress that works to the advantage of the remaining larger tribes.
That said, I'm making a lot of assumptions and mostly plot-based speculations.
Rereading some of the past chapters, America ( The Union) like an anime protagonist who facing his dark side ( Confederacy) for control and opened his eyes to reality of his past actions. And going through a moral change ( Second American revolution or the civil war) to shed the darkness away.
Honestly this story is great!!
Honestly this story is great!!
I actually disgaree with that assessment, it'd risk giving them a new powerbase to rebuild in, in virgin fertile land no less.
It makes more sense to encourage Freedmen migration out there. Let the slavers hold their estate, but good luck getting people to work it.