Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
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Derek Pullem
Donor
Technically they are actually invading it not liberating it but it's a very nuanced discussion
And if the criterion is occupied by Britain, however briefly, it would qualify.Technically they are actually invading it not liberating it but it's a very nuanced discussion
Technically that could also apply to Germany 😁
It did let Japanese forces base out of them so yeah it is hostile, though I imagine forcing Thailand to capitulate would give a potentially friendly force and another source of rubber.Technically they are actually invading it not liberating it but it's a very nuanced discussion
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The Japanese invaded first though, so it's technically an occupied nation.
Source then because none of my histories have more than a British expeditionary force in 1917/18, there still was a Portuguese Governor at all times, still Portuguese forces ( over 20000 strong when the fighting stopped ) in the colony and the fighting did not reach Southern Mozambique at all.
While iffy it's possible to claim they were "invited in" although like French Indochina I don't see that standing up in war crimes court. (Guns to head make consent very iffy after all).
Mark1878
Donor
However the war crimes court after the war is not the audience that matters here.
What matters is what do the USA and Japan do if Britain invades Thailand.
Japan freaks, "Hey this is all backwards, we're invading you!"
America says nothing although privately they probably demand Britain not do anything like add it to the Empire which since the Imperial urge is pretty much gone for everybody except Winston won't be a problem.
Of course then the Thai's ask to join the Empire as a protectorate and that puts the cat among the pigeons good a proper...
That would have some interesting diplomatic consequences for the W-Allies and the post-war in particular it will also make the French scream bloody murder if the Indo-China war happens as OTL.
True. Although given how much murky that deal was I imagine people will claim false equivalent.
Given Britain is leaving India whatever there will be no appetite to take more of SW Asia than they have already. At most a Protectorate that actually means that word for the war (and a chance to sneak inside the trading network) then back to normal post war (but with Commonwealth membership). Probably with just a slap on the wrist for making nice with the Japanese in the first place.
The empire has a record for turning down inconvenient applicants.
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I had recently kinda had commented before on how the British could potential (probably) react with more than just a slap on the wrist though. Whatever it is, the British reaction would be heavier than the Americans.
As for Thailand becoming a protectorate though, there is a part of me that is a bit skeptical about the likelihood of that happening, which could depend on whoever would be in charge of Thailand after the removal of the Japanese (and with it, probably also the (fascistic?)PM Phibun).
Edit:Interestingly, there is a time during the Eden premiership where the British would consider inviting some European nations to join the Commonwealth. The most amusing & recent event IMO would be an (unverified and probably fake) article by a New Zealand outlet talking the (possibility?) of the UK inviting the US to join it during the Trump presidency. If Thailand successfully join the Commonwealth, it could probably open the floodgates of invitation for the European, Americans, heck even China(perhaps under an agreement of the takeover of Hong Kong) and Japan (since the Commonwealth would probably be involved in the occupation of Japan) to join the Commonwealth, but that would probably straight to ASB territory.
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Remember the British are the only nation in history to have acquired an Empire almost entirely by accident!
There was no real plan involved. Nothing about La Gloire, or A Place in the Sun, or Manifest Destiny. Finding themselves in charge of bits of the world they had no real use for or reason to occupy, except maybe making sure that the French did not get it, seemed to be more of a side-effect. There were a lot of get-rich-quick schemes that just got out of hand.
Taking over the governance of Thailand as a temporary wartime measure might well lead to it being part of the Commonwealth.
There was no real plan involved. Nothing about La Gloire, or A Place in the Sun, or Manifest Destiny. Finding themselves in charge of bits of the world they had no real use for or reason to occupy, except maybe making sure that the French did not get it, seemed to be more of a side-effect. There were a lot of get-rich-quick schemes that just got out of hand.
Taking over the governance of Thailand as a temporary wartime measure might well lead to it being part of the Commonwealth.
It's a bit late for that, an economic relationship (and military protection) is one thing but the days of London getting reports like, "Have destroyed bandits and accidentally conquered Uppernowhereland, send administrators and pay," are 40 years dead by this point.
Honestly, considering the huge task of handling its own colonies, which in itself is having a set of problems l(ike in India and Palestine) and also the need to even reform the administration (like in Malaya), unless the some of the administration task of additional territories could delegated to New Delhi, Canberra or Ottawa, I would not be surprised if London decide to let Washington D.C to handle the administration of Thailand.
Edit: Perhaps there is an overestimation of the impact of being a member of the Commonwealth.
What should be discussed at this point is how would the politicians in Thailand would embark on its foreign (and domestic) policy after the removal of Japanese. Sorry if I had to reiterate that (again).
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I think this would more than likely be depended on what the government in Bangkok could be offered as well as how they act and what they do when the Commonwealth and British forces actually manage to put the boot on the IJA’s throat and press down hard. Ideally they could be persuaded to join the war on the Allied side though depending on the state of their armed forces that may not be feasible heck I think they are using a Mauser Derivative at this point as their primary rifle with some Japanese rifles mixed in with their heavier stuff being a mix of Japanese gear and the odd bofors and old British stuff thrown in. If they are going to be involved as a belligerent then they will need a major requirement which will more than likely come from the USA with the odd British Tank thrown in probably. Though in all honesty I’m not sure how likely it is if they get involved in the fighting, given the beating they took they may want to sit it out and just supply war materials to the allies another source of secure rubber would be a god send to the allies heck Thai rice could be sent to India to help with the Famine if their is enough of a surplus.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Well I don't think Washington will be involved as they have other matters to address and there will be multiple British divisions on the ground. Burma-Malaya is a British war and Thailand is where the Japanese are based so by extension Indochina will become a British (and later Anglo-French) issue to resolve.
Only when (if?) France runs into issues with the Viet Minh might the Americans become involved. Until then Thailand will probably be seeking to as quickly as possible align with the Allies in theatre (British) and remove any trace of Phibun and the collaborationist faction. Quite how an Allied campaign into Indochina with Viet Minh co-belligerents may play out is anyone's guess.