Is that Goliath the Germans, or another power we did not see yet?
8mm to the Left: If Hitler Died in 1923
- Thread starter KaiserKatze
- Start date
I will leave it up to you to speculate. I'm just here to mercilessly tease
Not to be offensive just as a jest, you are a sadist my good sir
Why though? Italy can't actually attack any of the nations that actually threatened the USSR nor are they strong enough to take on Germany(the only country that has enough strength and is close enough to actually threaten the USSR), same thing with Japan who have their ambitions in China and Asia which clashes with Soviet backing of Mao and other communist guerrillas, likewise the USSR can't offer Japan anything that they would want.
Also, this alt ww2 would likely happen in the mid to late 50s under a new leadership because Stalin was notoriously cautious, especially when it came to foreign policy, so whether it's otl successor in Nikita or someone else, they would still need some time to prepare for any potential war.
You know what good question? Let me rephrase this to @Kurd Gossemer who do you think the axis powers would be?
That's my thoughts on how things would go rn, I've just have no idea how the USSR could fight all their way through to Denmark though...
I think we are going to see France be allies with the USSR though. I think the rise of the french right will push France to become way too radical.
I don't think there would be any sort of "Axis" to begin with, outside of Turkey, no one would want to ally with the USSR on their own initiative because they're dirty reds and the USSR has conquest prospects on them(Finland and the Baltics) or taking their territories (Poland and Romania), so they're not the popular kid in the block and they know it, so until they're fully modernized in industry and army and out of Stalin's leadership, they'll keep themselves in their own corner.
Italy has their own ambitions on the Balkans and Central Europe, so while some powers like Bulgaria might be drawn in by them, they aren't likely to be in the same level Germany was otl when it came to pulling allies.
Japan is the most likely one to follow their OTL path, although without the war in Europe, they're likely to limit their targets mainly to China and Indonesia (if they need the resources from there in case of a embargo)
I don't think there will be a axis, but certainly authoritian powers who's actions can escalate into "small" wars instead of a united block who starts a world war on their own.
if I may, I believe that France, Italia, and Nippon(Japan) would be the major powers of the alliance(calling Italia a major power is rather flimsy, though I digress).
My evidence for this is that France and Italia seem to be drifting to getter in the TL and Nippon still has the same grievances and coup attempts as OTL, Hitler dying does not change that, so the Italians and Nippon are going to see each other as fellow fascist friends.
Sweden becomes fascist and attacks?
France seems steadily more rightwing, they would not ally with the Soveits
So you think France, Italy, and Japan are gonna be the major powers everybody will fight against, interesting concept. I disagree with the Soviets not allying with France. I think if Stalin believed it was in his best interest he would ally with anyone, I mean he allied with Hitler because he wanted Poland and then he allied with Allied powers because Germany invaded the Soviet Union. My point being is that the guy will ally with anyone who he believes can bolster the Soviet Union's position.
He only did a non aggression pact with Hitler because the Allies had refused earlier a alliance against the Germans, plus it allowed the USSR to acquire money and machine parts they were using for their military modernization, not only that but both sides also knew the non aggression pact was temporary and were waiting for the right moment to withdraw from it, it just so happened that Germany's best time to do so was during the worst possible moment for the USSR.
Absolutely not. France is going to be fundamentally opposed to the USSR at the same level Nazi Germany was, except there is no alliance of convenience to be made over a Poland. And Germany and the USSR had a history of co-operating since the Interbellum as both were international pariah's. Even within the Axis there was very little co-operation, the USSR simply isn't going to co-operate with a France with who their interests conflict so much.
I think this is a overstatement. The moment Germany attacked was moreso the least bad moment for Germany to attack. The fears of oil running out were very real and Stalin could close the tap at any moment. Taking the initiative when there still were oil reserves left to do anything in general is the least worst moment for Germany to strike, which turns out was the worst possible moment for the USSR indeed.
On that note, horseshoe theory will be getting a shot in the arm with how both Fascist Italy and the Soviet Union would be allies, if that is the case.
Horseshoe theory as I know it is for authoritarianism, other than that the two sides are fundamentally different. There is no reason for Italia and the Soveits to ally. That said I could see two simultaneous wars, that lump together, but I do not see the flash point that would bring the germans and soveits to war.
Been finding some interesting stuff while researching the sort of subtle things that would be influenced by an absence of the Nazis, so here is a small aside on fashion to tie you over to the next chapter:
Did you guys know that Hitler had a big influence on the German and greater European fashion movement?
In the 30's, German fashion designers were becoming hugely successful, with many Parisian designers coming to Berlin and there being some fear in France of Berlin taking their top slot. When Hitler came to power, this ended, since most of the major companies and brands were Jewish-owned or run.
Hitler made his own ministry for fashion, the Modeamt, which focused on promoting more traditional clothing for woman, and trying to minimise the use of pants and cosmetics which he felt detracted from their natural beauty.
As for men, the effects on fashion were smaller, but nevertheless did have an impact on beards. Fascism aimed at a clean, youthful, modern look, while facial hair was seen as being more connected to the Kaiserreich and the moustaches and beards of Franz Ferdinand, Wilhelm II, and Tsar Nicholas.
Without Hitler, I see a lot of the early 30's styles staying and developing in less dramatic ways, partly because of the Depression. I see a lot of women keeping the 20's looks, but them becoming more toned-down and daywear-appropriate compared to the excess of the 20's. Short hair will remain "in", as well as the slimmer forms and broader shoulders which Hitler opposed because they were not conducive to his push for women to pump out kids.
Fascist Italy likewise put a lot of effort into reshaping the image of the Italian citizen, with emphasis on Italian designs for men and women, with the latter being very modest and traditional. Expect many Italian designers to be as likely to flee to Berlin as to Paris. Especially with the lingering, if slightly diminished gay scene of "Babylon Berlin", fluidity in fashion will birth many new styles in the 30's.
Here are some (AI-generated) examples of alternate mid-late 1930's fashions:
Did you guys know that Hitler had a big influence on the German and greater European fashion movement?
In the 30's, German fashion designers were becoming hugely successful, with many Parisian designers coming to Berlin and there being some fear in France of Berlin taking their top slot. When Hitler came to power, this ended, since most of the major companies and brands were Jewish-owned or run.
Hitler made his own ministry for fashion, the Modeamt, which focused on promoting more traditional clothing for woman, and trying to minimise the use of pants and cosmetics which he felt detracted from their natural beauty.
As for men, the effects on fashion were smaller, but nevertheless did have an impact on beards. Fascism aimed at a clean, youthful, modern look, while facial hair was seen as being more connected to the Kaiserreich and the moustaches and beards of Franz Ferdinand, Wilhelm II, and Tsar Nicholas.
Without Hitler, I see a lot of the early 30's styles staying and developing in less dramatic ways, partly because of the Depression. I see a lot of women keeping the 20's looks, but them becoming more toned-down and daywear-appropriate compared to the excess of the 20's. Short hair will remain "in", as well as the slimmer forms and broader shoulders which Hitler opposed because they were not conducive to his push for women to pump out kids.
Fascist Italy likewise put a lot of effort into reshaping the image of the Italian citizen, with emphasis on Italian designs for men and women, with the latter being very modest and traditional. Expect many Italian designers to be as likely to flee to Berlin as to Paris. Especially with the lingering, if slightly diminished gay scene of "Babylon Berlin", fluidity in fashion will birth many new styles in the 30's.
Here are some (AI-generated) examples of alternate mid-late 1930's fashions:
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What AI did you use to make them? Same as the last AI images you posted?