8mm to the Left: If Hitler Died in 1923
- Thread starter KaiserKatze
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With the KPD banned, would these guys be gaining any popularity in this world's Germany, especially as KPD voters would probably be moving to them:
en.wikipedia.org
Socialist Workers' Party of Germany - Wikipedia
Thanks!
It will take time for them to pick up the pieces but yes. Another one to benefit will be the Opposition Party, as the Stalinist trend of the KPD will be blamed for a lot of thisWith the KPD banned, would these guys be gaining any popularity in this world's Germany, especially as KPD voters would probably be moving to them:
Socialist Workers' Party of Germany - Wikipedia
Thanks!
On that note, a young Willy Brandt was involved in the SAPD, so there's that to consider about his political trajectory ITTL.
That is exactly what it was inspired by, I'm impressed how quickly someone noticed that!
Very interesting TL so far. I do wonder how Lettow-Vorbeck's rule would look like. While so far he has been portrayed as fairly smart and able to compromise, but many of the elements he has allied himself to are very much not. The flipside of getting to power riding a nationalistic wave and in coalition with the far right is that he'll have pressure on him to do quite unsavoury or unadvantageous stuff.
How would he handle Göring and co.'s calls for increasing anti-semitism? Or when the Stahlhelm starts pushing for 1914 borders that would see Germany at war with everyone again?
How would he handle Göring and co.'s calls for increasing anti-semitism? Or when the Stahlhelm starts pushing for 1914 borders that would see Germany at war with everyone again?
That's something that will become more of a question as time goes on. He can neither ignore those voices and risk angering them nor can he follow through with them fully for the sake of stability and international relations.
None of the powers he allied to get into power align fully with his ideals. The Stahlhelm is too far-right, the Kamarilla want him to be a puppet, and the Zentrum is way too Catholic and anti-interventionist. They all are united behind him against bigger foes but once they are strong enough or those foes are dealt with, they will turn on each other. And the more he feeds them now, the worse that turn will be.
Which may end up badly if he doesn't start supporting two rather than four fairly quickly.
Basically do what Britain has done today, two parties that are overwhelmingly opposite, turned into two parties that are very similar.
But still maintain that veneer of being opposites, but the head of state controls both of them from the background.
The main problem being, that doing so quickly is incredibly dangerous and not likely to work, and it's fast easier to do when you've the same head of state and that head of state can't be blamed for governmental problems.
It does seem to happen naturally in some places, but it's very difficult to do, both naturally and by design.
To do it with a president rather than a king or emperor, may actually require a neutral third party, one with which to balance the other two...
Going to British politics, like the old yellows were for the blues and reds, like purple almost became and then fell.
With a third party lacking being now a keenly felt loss at the moment.
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Very interesting TL so far, very curious to see how Lettow will deal with Germany in the 30s as well as the conflicting interests of his coalition.
Also without WW2, Stalin could probably continue his building projects and industrialization, sure he might miss on getting the Baltics or adjusting the border with Finland but a USSR who avoids WW2 is arguably one that will end up much better in the long run.
Also without WW2, Stalin could probably continue his building projects and industrialization, sure he might miss on getting the Baltics or adjusting the border with Finland but a USSR who avoids WW2 is arguably one that will end up much better in the long run.
True, the Palace of the Soviets is a good example of this. IRL it wasn't finished because of the German invasion, but in this one it will be finished. That does not mean it will be during peacetime or that it is a good indicator of the economy, but... it WILL be finished.
GeekyOwl
Banned
This TL seems promising. I am still unsure of if it will manage to portray the full intricacies (and the sheer bullshit) of the Junkers and the entirety of the German moderate conservatives, but so far it's living up to it, so I'll definitely be watching this.
One small minor criticism, I do think some of the dialogues are a bit too dry and modern-y, a little bit of a dance between the sides would be more interesting to see, but that's a minor quibble.
One small minor criticism, I do think some of the dialogues are a bit too dry and modern-y, a little bit of a dance between the sides would be more interesting to see, but that's a minor quibble.
I have a lot of notes on the Junkers and moderates but I am appreciative of anything more specific you can point me in the direction of to make sure I cover it.
Can you explain more what you mean with the dialogue? I didn't particularly like the one in this chapter but in general I felt like I needed more dialogue to break up the more textbook-y elements
The problem is that Europe at large lacks the Anglophone two party system. Sure, there is always going to be the large parties around who coalitions gather, but it's not going to have the big tent parties that you're describing. And this is not something that makes these systems inherently fail. Von Lettow-Vorbeck's victory and the crackdown on the communists that caused it has done some severe damage to the communists, a inherently anti-system part of the Republic. It's basically confirmed that the Republic will end, but for that to happen the moderate elements will have to agree to it.
I read the one "Bullshit" Goering said out as "Quatsch" which is a hard German word to translate exactly. I can't say how modern it is, but it's logical in a way that translating brings it automatically to more modern language
The crackdown felt very stiff when writing it but I felt that it was a necessary step. Thälmann and his groupies were getting way too bold at this point and I felt that, even if Hitler never came to power, they still would have been the target of a government crackdown solely for how cocky they were. But you are also right that this system forces more cooperation and agreement.
Thank you for summarising my difficulties. I picture a lot of these characters speaking German (von Lettow-Vorbeck's speeches felt very weird in English to me, cause I could hear it like an old German radio broadcast in my head) and it occurred to me that there is no "Victorian English" way to call someone's bluff that is also a bit crass. "Bullshit" is absolutely too modern, but... I have no idea what someone else would say. I can't get the picture out of my head of Göring in a monocle and top hat exclaiming, "I call your bluff, my good man!"
i think the (dated) english expression would be 'poppycock', it def is a much better translation of 'Quatsch' then 'bullshit'
I wish I could recreate the wheeze I just made upon picturing Hermann Göring saying THAT
I can see the difficulty. And that's an amusing image.
(Though that said, while these people are old-school...they are also former soldiers, they can be on the crass side no matter what the time period
)In the end, I do think that it's perfectly valid to have as an assumed disclaimer 'I cannot perfectly match the intricacies of actual period German into English, ergo I am going to go for what the modern-ish equivalent would be'. That's what a lot of Western writers who write Asian characters would do since translating, say, Japanese directly into English can lead to interesting results (especially in the swearing stakes - to quote an example a friend told me about, 'unpleasant dunce' might be an insult in Japanese but it's more funny than anything else in English).
Really? I thought 'Quatsch' was considered a somewhat pungent term.
True, but I do think @GeekyOwl was also correct in that the style of the dialogue could be better. I am trying to vary it a bit but I am not sure which parts are most in need of a fine-tuning. All constructive criticism is welcome.I can see the difficulty. And that's an amusing image.
(Though that said, while these people are old-school...they are also former soldiers, they can be on the crass side no matter what the time period
In the end, I do think that it's perfectly valid to have as an assumed disclaimer 'I cannot perfectly match the intricacies of actual period German into English, ergo I am going to go for what the modern-ish equivalent would be'. That's what a lot of Western writers who write Asian characters would do since translating, say, Japanese directly into English can lead to interesting results (especially in the swearing stakes - to quote an example a friend told me about, 'unpleasant dunce' might be an insult in Japanese but it's more funny than anything else in English).
Really? I thought 'Quatsch' was considered a somewhat pungent term.