How would the Roman pagans classify Asian/American Gods and Goddesses?

[Fatt Shea]

In a scenario where the Romans remain polytheist due to no Jesus they would try to understand the religions of Asia through their own lense just as the Christians and muslims would do, leading to our confused understanding of them today. The Romans generally tried to find the most similar God that foreign people worshipped to one of their own Gods and stated that the foreigners were worhipping this Roman God under a different name, the Greeks and Germans did the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_germanica
For example, the Roman God mars was considered to be the Greek God ares and the Egypitian God anhur, there are many more examples of this and there is a chart depicting the comparisons on the wikipedia page.
So if Roman other European polytheisms survived and the Europeans still end up exlporing the world then they would do the same with the Hindu, Chinese and Japanese deities. Some examples of this could be:
Krishna as Heracles or Hercules due to facing similar trials.
Parvati as Hera or Juno.
Ameratsu as Sol or Apollo since she is associated strongly with the sun,
Yama as Hades/Pluto since they are both Gods of the underworld.

How would the Romans view figures like Confucius and the Buddha? Perhaps they might see them as forieign versions of popular philosophers like Plato especially if neo platonism is big in this scenario rather than trying to fit them into the Abrahamic mold.
Would Hinduism still be classed as a single religion in this timeline?

 

[Patg_hnj]

Going by their practice in Britannia then they will just Romanise the gods - presuming that there are no objectionable practices (human sacrifice or over use of dodgy boose ).
The only other issue is if followers were to rise in armed rebellion, but even then it only applied to those in actual revolt.

 

[pjmidd]

How would the Romans view figures like Confucius and the Buddha? Perhaps they might see them as forieign versions of popular philosophers like Plato especially if neo platonism is big in this scenario rather than trying to fit them into the Abrahamic mold.

Romans only viewed divinities as versions of Roman Gods, mortals would just be foreign philosophers like Plato was

Would Hinduism still be classed as a single religion in this timeline?

Hinduism is not a single religion, its a term that covers a host of similar and sometimes contradictory traditions. No one actually even agrees on how to classify them all, some scholars say there are 4 main branch's, others 3 and some 6. Some Hindus say all the Gods are aspects of a single God, whilst Gandhi famously said you could be an atheist and still be a Hindu.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

In the case of Eurasian cultures descended from the Proto-Indo-Europeans (PIE) of Scythia, they ultimately do trace back to many of the same original PIE divinities, which would certainly aid efforts at finding the "root divine".

*Dyḗus ph₂tḗr (sky-light father) evolved into Iu Pater (Jupiter) and Zeus, Dyaus pitar in early Sanskrit as well as Deus as a term for god(s), Divas in Hindu, Divine, and Divinity. Similar things with *Dʰéǵʰōm Méh₂tēr (Earth Mother), e.g. Mater, matter, Demeter, etc.

The Gods of P.I.E. — A dead man fell from the sky...

I've previously written about the Proto-Indo-European family of languages . Pretty much all the European languages, plus Sanskrit in India, plus a lot of languages across the Middle East, are all descended from an incredibly ancient language, called Proto-Indo-European, usually s

garycorby.com

*Dyēus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

*Dʰéǵʰōm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Assuming future Roman Paganism remains the bedrock of western society, perhaps future Linguists note these similarities, potentially spawning a religious movement to "find the pure original divine" or the like.

 

[Dancing Fool]

presuming that there are no objectionable practices (human sacrifice or over use of dodgy boose )

What is “dodgy boose,” sounds interesting!

 

[Dancing Fool]

Hinduism is not a single religion, its a term that covers a host of similar and sometimes contradictory traditions. No one actually even agrees on how to classify them all, some scholars say there are 4 main branch's, others 3 and some 6.

More so than Christianity has multiple forms?

With Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant. And I don’t think we have to go as far as Santería to say some forms of Catholicism are essentially polytheistic. And arguably, debatably, Mormonism is a polytheistic branch of Protestantism. Although I suspect your high-energy young missionary could respond to that with aplomb!

And I don’t know whether there are forms of the Orthodox branch were are essentially polytheistic.

================

PS. I am open to the idea that Hinduism is fundamentally different in this regard.

 

[Fatt Shea]

Hinduism is not a single religion, it’s a term that covers a host of similar and sometimes contradictory traditions. No one actually even agrees on how to classify them all, some scholars say there are 4 main branch's, others 3 and some 6. Some Hindus say all the Gods are aspects of a single God, whilst Gandhi famously said you could be an atheist and still be a Hindu.

That’s what i was saying but people still catergorise hinduism as a single religion especially in the west, it’s considered one of the major religions. Without christianity it might not have been catergorised by westerners as a single religion since Roman paganism was similar to Hinduism in having contradictory traditions and beliefs as well as accepting foreign Gods.

In the case of Eurasian cultures descended from the Proto-Indo-Europeans (PIE) of Scythia, they ultimately do trace back to many of the same original PIE divinities, which would certainly aid efforts at finding the "root divine".

*Dyḗus ph₂tḗr (sky-light father) evolved into Iu Pater (Jupiter) and Zeus, Dyaus pitar in early Sanskrit as well as Deus as a term for god(s), Divas in Hindu, Divine, and Divinity. Similar things with *Dʰéǵʰōm Méh₂tēr (Earth Mother), e.g. Mater, matter, Demeter, etc.

The Gods of P.I.E. — A dead man fell from the sky...

I've previously written about the Proto-Indo-European family of languages . Pretty much all the European languages, plus Sanskrit in India, plus a lot of languages across the Middle East, are all descended from an incredibly ancient language, called Proto-Indo-European, usually s

garycorby.com

*Dyēus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

*Dʰéǵʰōm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Assuming future Roman Paganism remains the bedrock of western society, perhaps future Linguists note these similarities, potentially spawning a religious movement to "find the pure original divine" or the like.

That’s very true for once that is discovered. But a lot of the more shared Gods had become less popular in Hinduism in favour of the trimurti and their avatars/wives for example Dyaus was not popularly worshipped. So the romans at first would be focused on how to classify the trimurti Gods. I also wonder how they would view the avatars as that was not a feature in Roman religion maybe they would view them as the children of the trimurti

 

[pjmidd]

PS. I am open to the idea that Hinduism is fundamentally different in this regard.

Think the main difference is that all Christians must worship the same God to be counted as Christian but Hindu's don't have to. As Gandhi eluded to, its even possible for a Hindu to believe only in the Universe rather than a God/Gods and so not worship any divine being. They in that case just follow a code of living ( if I understood them right ).

 

[Arkenfolm]

Trickster deities like Raven or Coyote among North American Indians would be considered as Prometheus, and indeed there actually was an early European explorer writing on indigenous religious beliefs who explicitly compared Raven to Prometheus. In many cultures, one of those two beings was said to have stolen fire or otherwise taught humans how to use it. IIRC there was also a 19th century anthropologist discussing the religion of California Indians who compared the culture hero/demigod Kuksu (whose cult was widespread in the Central Valley and adjacent areas) to Hercules.

Reading old/antiquidated works on non-Western religions is likely very enlightening as to how hypothetical alt-Greeks/alt-Romans might think (although knowledge of Greco-Roman religion in the 18th/19th century was based on its Renaissance interpretation by people who didn't actually practice it).

 

[Hearkener]

Going by their practice in Britannia then they will just Romanise the gods - presuming that there are no objectionable practices (human sacrifice or over use of dodgy boose ).

The Romans didn't really have a problem with human sacrifice itself, on account of them doing it a lot. (Collosseum games, triumphs etc.) They just got the ick from the Carthaginians' (alleged) practices involving their own children.

 

[Andristan]

And the Druids/Gauls burning/sacrificing people, though it could also be the case that Rome banned the druids due to them being the focus of independence movements.

 

[Andristan]

With Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant. And I don’t think we have to go as far as Santería to say some forms of Catholicism are essentially polytheistic. And arguably, debatably, Mormonism is a polytheistic branch of Protestantism

Well, technically speaking, by definition, if you are worshipping more than one God, then you arent a christian, which is why Mormons are not considered christian by many Protestants as well as the Catholic Church, same with the Jehovah's witnesses.

 

[jacob ningen]

sun doesnt exist but hermes.

 

[cincpac overboard]

Assuming a surviving Roman Empire that manages to reach the Americas, they would likely encounter the classic Mesoamerican gods of Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca, and Tlaloc. Quetzalcoatl seems particularly associated with the arts and knowledge so perhaps they would consider him the locals' version of Apollo. Tezcatlipoca seems to be characterized by war and sorcery, a combination which I'm not sure really maps well onto any particular Roman deity. Tlaloc was chiefly associated with rain and fertility, which sounds kind of like Ceres but was also associated with lightning, the power of Jupiter. Things get interesting with the Roman interpretation of Tlaloc if they reach Mesoamerica about 400 AD, the heyday of the great city of Teotihuacan, where Tlaloc represented the power of the state.

 

[Conan]

When it comes to greaco-roman religion and indian religion, I had posted a thread asking about this very question. There were some very important takeaways that I had gotten from them. The most important one being that the current hindu deities are a result of multiple evolutions over the centuries. As such, it's important to keep in mind not only the deities themselves, but also the origins of these gods.
For example, let's take a look at Vaishnavism: Modern Vaishnavism is a result of the syncretism of various traditions. The original Vishnu seemed to be a solar deity that had much less mentions than Indra, Agni and other deities at the time, which would imply that he was a very minor position to begin with. So think less Apollo and more Helios. This was changed by the syncretisation of the cults of the deified leader Vasudeva and Krishna, another deified tribal hero (both of whom were actually associated with herakles by the indo-greeks). This cult later merged with the Cult of Gopala-Krishna of the cowherd community of the Abhiras in the 4th century CE. At some point, the deities Vishnu and Narayana were also included. Together with the late-Vedic texts, where the concept of a metaphysical Brahmin grows in prominence, and boom, you got 'modern' Vaishnavism.
As an aside, Shaktiism as a religion is thought to have it's origins around a few centuries before common era. Or at the very least, some of the earliest major texts do. I mentioned this in the other thread, but if there is a hellenic religion that would syncretie well with shaktiism, it would likely be the Cult of Isis due to certain similarities the two have. Or at the very least, it could serve as a model of what a 'hellenised Shaktiism' could look like.

 

[prani]

That’s what i was saying but people still catergorise hinduism as a single religion especially in the west, it’s considered one of the major religions. Without christianity it might not have been catergorised by westerners as a single religion since Roman paganism was similar to Hinduism in having contradictory traditions and beliefs as well as accepting foreign Gods.

I have to say this a very Abrahamic way of looking at Hindu traditions and quite offensive, just because we have contradictory (Which has been exaggerated by the westerners themselves from the opposite ends of the political divide) traditions and we don't kill or wage holy wars or call each other vile names, does not means we are not part of a single religious tradition, all traditions to be in the hindu creed view god in a monoistic creed which is what separates us from Buddhists and other religious creeds from the Dharmic creed. While we had different traditions of religion, we always had laws that applied to people regardless of the religious traditions, sometimes customs of a particular Jati trumped religious doctrine. Recent innovations such as sceptics, cavarkas like myself calling ourselves as Hindus is our way from differentiate ourselves from western atheists cause we are different from them.

 

[Augenis]

Assuming a surviving Roman Empire that manages to reach the Americas, they would likely encounter the classic Mesoamerican gods of Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca, and Tlaloc. Quetzalcoatl seems particularly associated with the arts and knowledge so perhaps they would consider him the locals' version of Apollo. Tezcatlipoca seems to be characterized by war and sorcery, a combination which I'm not sure really maps well onto any particular Roman deity. Tlaloc was chiefly associated with rain and fertility, which sounds kind of Ceres but was also associated with lightning, the power of Jupiter. Things get interesting with the Roman interpretation of Tlaloc if they reach Mesoamerica about 400 AD, the heyday of the great city of Teotihuacan, where Tlaloc represented the power of the state.

Odin is generally associated with war and sorcery and the Romans mapped him to Mercury.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Hinduism is not a single religion, its a term that covers a host of similar and sometimes contradictory traditions. No one actually even agrees on how to classify them all, some scholars say there are 4 main branch's, others 3 and some 6. Some Hindus say all the Gods are aspects of a single God, whilst Gandhi famously said you could be an atheist and still be a Hindu.

While all of that is true, Hinduism still has quantifiable bounds, that being holding the oldest Hindu texts (Puranas and others I forget) as holy texts, true divine rules.

Which Buddhism, Jainism, the Mizoram religion, Ajiktiva etc. do not.

Well, this isn't necessarily true as some Hindus do try to claim Buddhism and Jainism as part of Hinduism as merging from Hinduism but these are the exception both now and historically.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

More so than Christianity has multiple forms?

With Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant. And I don’t think we have to go as far as Santería to say some forms of Catholicism are essentially polytheistic. And arguably, debatably, Mormonism is a polytheistic branch of Protestantism. Although I suspect your high-energy young missionary could respond to that with aplomb!

And I don’t know whether there are forms of the Orthodox branch were are essentially polytheistic.

================

PS. I am open to the idea that Hinduism is fundamentally different in this regard.

Christians historically have different sects less because of great differences and more because of autistic over emphacis over what would be small details in most other religions.

The Western Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy and Madenkha Church(Church of the East) the four(well, Western Church and Eastern Orthodoxy were still united then) Churches that existed by 500 and that all Christians today are descended from essentially split over different emphacis of how the persons of the trinity relate to one another. If this was in Hinduism no one would even care.

The Romans didn't really have a problem with human sacrifice itself, on account of them doing it a lot. (Collosseum games, triumphs etc.) They just got the ick from the Carthaginians' (alleged) practices involving their own children.

No, they did have a problem with Human sacrifice they just didn't consider the examples you gave human sacrifice. And I would agree with them, a bit deadlier WWE is certainly not human sacrifice and the killing of the captive in the Triumph would be argued to be a display(visual/drama imagery) of power than a sacrifice to Jupiter.

 

[Metempsychosis]

PS. I am open to the idea that Hinduism is fundamentally different in this regard.

Here's the thing: Abrahamic thought regarding divinity is fundamentally different from all other thought regarding divinity. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism in their mainstream forms all agree on a certain combination of the transcendence and active immanence of God that is very strange to the thought outside of these usually far more open-ended traditions. The Hindu religious atmosphere is far closer to the spirit of pagan Rome than our own modern Abrahamic traditions, even if the aesthetics of pagan temples in Europe are closer to Catholicism's forms.

In the religious practices of ancient Rome, praying to Isis the Queen of Heaven was not anathema to following the thought of Zeno of Citium, nor to sacrificing a bull to Mithras, nor to celebrating the festivals of Lupercalia or Saturnalia, nor to paying a fortune-teller to check whether the next week would be lucky. To the Christian or Muslim or even Jewish mind, all these - aside from following Stoic ideals, maybe, and even then it had to be defended by thinkers - are anathema to following the path God has laid out for man.