WI: Mainstream Jews accept Jesus as Messiah.

What would happen if after Jesus's crucifixion those who supported Jesus as Messiah were able to take control of Jewish thought. Christians still exist and they accept Jesus as Son of God while the Jew's just see Jesus as the Messiah.

Elcheapodeca said:

What would happen if after Jesus's crucifixion those who supported Jesus as Messiah were able to take control of Jewish thought. Christians still exist and they accept Jesus as Son of God while the Jew's just see Jesus as the Messiah.

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I think that's sort of a contradiction. Jesus didn't 'save' the Jewish Nation from a Jewish perspective, so how could they view him as the Messiah without adopting Christianity's radically different cosmology?

Elcheapodeca said:

What would happen if after Jesus's crucifixion those who supported Jesus as Messiah were able to take control of Jewish thought. Christians still exist and they accept Jesus as Son of God while the Jew's just see Jesus as the Messiah.

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Impossible. Jesus simply could not be the messiah as the Jews believed it, because he was executed without really doing anything.

They could say he was a spiritual messiah sent here to revitalize certain teachings and help the Jew's maintain God's covenant couldn't they? Or does that fall outside the bounds of possible Jewish beliefs.

I think what your saying happened. The Jews who accepted jesus converted to Christianity. Those who didn't, didnt.

Elcheapodeca said:

They could say he was a spiritual messiah sent here to revitalize certain teachings and help the Jew's maintain God's covenant couldn't they? Or does that fall outside the bounds of possible Jewish beliefs.

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That would be completely redefining the Jewish definition of messiah at the time. The messiah was going to be a super badass guy who kicks the Romans out of Judea and restores the ancient glory of Israel. A guy who talked about God a lot, led a minor revolt and then was executed doesn't qualify. You might have a few people who continue to think he's the messiah (but come up with an explanation other than son of god) but they wouldn't get accepted by mainstream Judaism.

A Better PoD might be that at the Council of Jerusalem, its decided that the faith cannot be spread to Gentiles. That might win-over more Jews but that still probably would not stop a schism from emerging.

Scherzo said:

A Better PoD might be that at the Council of Jerusalem, its decided that the faith cannot be spread to Gentiles. That might win-over more Jews but that still probably would not stop a schism from emerging.

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Errr... the question was never whether to proseytize gentiles. That was happening anyway (contrary to the modern reputation of Judaism as non-proselytizing). No, the question was whether you had to follow Jewish law to be a Christian, or how much of the law they had to follow.

Youre not going to get a lot more Jewish converts if Christianity takes James' route,.and youll lose a lot of Gentile converts (especially male ones. Ouch.)


All that said, if most Jews accepted Jesus, then they cease being Jews. The remnant who didnt accept him - and there WOULD be those, remember we still still have Samaritans with us.

Oh yeah, sorry; I goofed.

Isn't this another way of saying "Judasim" becomes dominated by a "Jews for Jesus" movement? In this case, Jews become a heretical form of Christianity which accepts Jesus as the Messiah, but rejects the Trinity and retains a distinct Jewish identity from the Gentiles by obeying the traditional restrictions of Judaism.


For that to happen, you'd need a POD where Rabbinical Judaism did not become the dominant form of Judaism. You'd likely need an area of significant Jewish population where the Disciples established strength, yet which did not fall under Roman Authority as the Church episcopal hierarchy began to be built. Instead, the Disciples in Persia let's say, succeeds in convincing the Jews there to follow them than the Rabbis and transforms Jewish identity into a separate Jesus Movement distinct from the Church developing in Rome than eventually spreads into Persia.

There would be very little change in relations between Trinitarian Christians and Jews until a cultural situation develops like in the mid to late Twentieth Century. At that point, Judaism might become culturally accepted as another form of Christianity along with all the other myriad Christian sects. Prior to that, it's just another form of heresy or sect that the established Church rejects with all the cultural baggage that goes with it.